is a magnetic boiler filter necessary?

StevieD

I just refurbished our old cast iron rads.
took them out of the house, flushed them out, powder coated and reinstalled them.

Should I have my plumber install a magnetic boiler filter? Is it necessary?

I am sure my work on the rads dislodged debris inside them and I wouldnt want it to foul my pump or boiler.

thanks for any advice!

Steve in MD

ScottSecor

Radiators, supports and piping look fantastic. The floors and trim ain't too shabby either.

With regard to the magnetic dirt separator, I think they are a great idea, especially with condensing boilers and variable speed pumps. I suppose they are also a good idea with hot water systems with all cast iron radiators and mostly steel piping. That being said, they still need to be cleaned once in a while.

Do you have a cast iron boiler with large passes or do you have a modern condensing boiler with tiny passages (that can clog easily? Do you have "old school" oil lubricated pumps or modern variable speed models?

Finally, that is a massive radiator, did you size it to operate a real low temps (like 130 degrees on design day) or is it located in a very large room with lots of glass?

StevieD

ScottSecor said:

Radiators, supports and piping look fantastic. The floors and trim ain't too shabby either.

Thanks! I designed the feet myself based off drawings from the 1925 catalog and had them machined from aluminum.

With regard to the magnetic dirt separator, I think they are a great idea, especially with condensing boilers and variable speed pumps. I suppose they are also a good idea with hot water systems with all cast iron radiators and mostly steel piping. That being said, they still need to be cleaned once in a while.

Do you have a cast iron boiler with large passes or do you have a modern condensing boiler with tiny passages (that can clog easily? Do you have "old school" oil lubricated pumps or modern variable speed models?

I don't know the answers to these questions! I can ask my plumber.

Finally, that is a massive radiator, did you size it to operate a real low temps (like 130 degrees on design day) or is it located in a very large room with lots of glass?

I just put the rads back in the rooms that they came out of.

hot_rod

Really is no down side to having a magnetic separator   You can get combination devices
air/dirt

EBEBRATT-Ed

@StevieD

Really nice-looking Job. Congratulations.

As others have said a Mag separator is like driving with a spare tire if you have a CI boiler. It's like driving with 4 spares if the boiler is condensing boiler. And brass pipe!!!! Was that their originally or did you put that in? Really nice job on the floor supports.

I really hate to mention the floor mounted receptacle which is illegal now. Dirt can get in there. You can buy a cover plate for those with a removable cap. At least I know you can for a single receptacle I don't know about a duplex. There usually (the cover plates with a cap on it) made of brass!! More bling.

But your job looks so awesome i won't tell.

Mad Dog_2

A First Class System like that CALLS for it...Do it!  No regrets there.  Mad Dog 🐕 

OldawgBryant

Clean-looking. I agree with wasting that outlet on the floor. I just got the dirt-mag pro for my system, as I think it is a good investment for system longevity, and I am doing a lot of new near boiler piping with more thread than copper.

KirkDonnelly

Nice, it looks so clean.

PeteA

StevieD said:

I just refurbished our old cast iron rads.
took them out of the house, flushed them out, powder coated and reinstalled them.

Should I have my plumber install a magnetic boiler filter? Is it necessary?

I am sure my work on the rads dislodged debris inside them and I wouldnt want it to foul my pump or boiler.

thanks for any advice!

Steve in MD

WOW that looks great!!

hot_rod

You will be amazed how much "stuff" a magnetic separator pulls out. In addition to the dirt removal, the micro sized particles too small to filter out.

If you have, or ever add an ECM style circulator, it is critical to have a mag separator.

We installed a mag sep on our system in Milwaukee after 10 years of operation, these yellow bins show the result of the first flush.

It is another component to assure you system runs clean, and efficiently. Not unlike an oil filter and magnetic drain plug on a truck engine

PeteA

hot_rod said:

You will be amazed how much "stuff" a magnetic separator pulls out. In addition to the dirt removal, the micro sized particles too small to filter out.

If you have, or ever add an ECM style circulator, it is critical to have a mag separator.

We installed a mag sep on our system in Milwaukee after 10 years of operation, these yellow bins show the result of the first flush.

It is another component to assure you system runs clean, and efficiently. Not unlike an oil filter and magnetic drain plug on a truck engine

WOW that is a huge difference

skiereric

hot_rod said:

If you have, or ever add an ECM style circulator, it is critical to have a mag separator.

Why is it critical?

PeteA

skiereric said:

hot_rod said:

If you have, or ever add an ECM style circulator, it is critical to have a mag separator.

Why is it critical?

the ECM motors are driven by a magnetic field which would grab and accumulate the magnetically attracted particles and can jam up the pump.

hot_rod

Magnetite, find it in the black streaks on Staten Island beaches, and in your hydronic systems 
It is naturally occurring in nature, a useful mechanism mineral used in paints, abrasives, and to process high sulphur coal

In hydronic systems it is know as boiler ink. It forms when ferrous components breakdown in the presence of o2.

Wet rotor circulators  have a hole through the center of there shafts to allow water to lubricate  the bearing.  ECM circulators have a permanent magnet rotor. So the small magnetic particles of magnetite can get stuck to that rotor and jam the pump.

PeteA

@hot_rod since this topic is on the magnetic separator, I was wondering if there is any issue about the system pump blowing out the accumulated particles during the time that the boiler protection valve is circulating the higher velocity water through the much shorter piping circuit.
I believe that the way the hydronic systems are explained in some of my previous posts that the magnetic separator is usually at a point of low pressure where the pipe returns back to the boiler, but does that dynamic change and cause any issue during the time that the boiler protection valve is doing it's thing circulating the water up to the point of the valve opening and going back to normal operation. I am going to purge mine before I install my protection valve but I was wondering if I need to reconfigure even more pipe than I originally thought. I have the caleffi dual magnet device installed at this time.

hot_rod

Having a mag sep anywhere in the piping will collect particles on the magnet.

I like them on the return before the boiler, so on the first fill and start they can catch solder balls, teflon tape, copper or steal ream chips, etc. Small particles 5 micron and smaller will take multiple passes to separate.

It is not a huge deal, if you can get it close to the boiler so much the better.

EricPeterson

hot_rod said:

Having a mag sep anywhere in the piping will collect particles on the magnet.

I like them on the return before the boiler, so on the first fill and start they can catch solder balls, teflon tape, copper or steal ream chips, etc. Small particles 5 micron and smaller will take multiple passes to separate.

It is not a huge deal, if you can get it close to the boiler so much the better.

@hot_rod - that's very interesting. I have a nice long stretch of horizontal return pipe behind the boiler.
Does the mag sep require isolation valves to clean it?
I may get that Grundfoss after all.

Thanks,
Eric

hot_rod

Depends on the brand as far as cleaning. The Caleffi DirtMag had a drain to blow down while leaving the pressure and fill valve on. No need to isolate.
Remove the magnets, put a bucket below and open the ball valve.

We have a new XF due after the first of the year. It has a handy scrubbing brush feature, can be vertical or horizontal mounted