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Boiler drain valve seized

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Demon
Demon Member Posts: 6
edited October 2023 in Plumbing
Hello my warm friends, sorry I'm new here so forgive me for I may be a bit silly with my explanations, and yes this is probably a really simple matter to solve, but I'd rather get some input before causing worse issues.

So here it goes... I have an Ek1 that has a drain cock that I put a wrench to it to remove and it just wouldn't budge. I need to change it because it leaks at the T-handle when it is in the open position. I believe they just used Teflon tape on the threads. (I was able to replace the other drain cock and upon removal I could see the old tape on it)

I was thinking to use a blow torch but am concerned about causing damage to any surrounding parts or something happening to the piping. And I'm worried about putting more muscle into the wrench and not breaking something that way too.

Any pointers here on a tried and true method would be appreciated, thank you.

EDIT: I considered possibly using an air ratchet to get that "hammer" effect. But then noticed the ⭕ rim of the valve is bigger diameter than the nut , so I wouldn't be able to get a socket tight on it unless I cut the valve.



Doesn't take a screwdriver 🪛 to hammer 🔨 that nail 📌

Comments

  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,335
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    If you had a Ferrari, Rolls Royce, or new Cadillac would you attempt to work on it yourself? I'm all for DIY but Energy Kinetics is not a good DIY boiler. For one thing, their parts are ONLY available to a select group of their dealers. I can't buy their parts, you can't buy their parts, Joe Plumber can't buy their parts, many very good Hydronic heat men, can't buy their parts.
    That's a very well made (and expensive) boiler, but it needs annual service from an EK dealer. You need to establish a relationship with an EK dealer.
    I DIY.
    Intplm.
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,335
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    http://alloy-artifacts.org/proto-empire.html#tubing-also-tac
    This on the valve and a ViseGrip 10C on the goesinto for backup might work. A second ViseGrip 10C could substitute for the fancypants TAC socket. No blowtorch.
    An EK dealer could do all the other important things like properly clean the high drama heat exchanger. Well worth it to keep that boiler in top notch condition.

    I DIY.
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,335
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    A short lived ball valve. How could that possibly happen? The HeatingHelpers all love ball valves. Ball valves are the greatest thing since sliced bread!
    I DIY.
    Demon
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,335
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    I like vise grips because you can wiggle the nut or fitting in both directions. To avoid breaking fittings or bolts, the secret to success is to work it loose. Back and forth to break the corrosion and establish movement. Pipe wrenches are not so great for back and forth. Ratchets and the fancy pants TAC crowfoot socket are also one direction only. Breaker bar better than ratchet for wiggling back and forth.
    Heat from a Mapp Gas or Acetylene torch can help, but you have to protect adjacent items.
    I DIY.
  • Demon
    Demon Member Posts: 6
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    WMno57 said:

    If you had a Ferrari, Rolls Royce, or new Cadillac would you attempt to work on it yourself? I'm all for DIY but Energy Kinetics is not a good DIY boiler. For one thing, their parts are ONLY available to a select group of their dealers. I can't buy their parts, you can't buy their parts, Joe Plumber can't buy their parts, many very good Hydronic heat men, can't buy their parts.
    That's a very well made (and expensive) boiler, but it needs annual service from an EK dealer. You need to establish a relationship with an EK dealer.

    Thank you for the tip. The boiler is maintained yearly by a local dealer. Boiler drain valves however are readily available just about anywhere there's a plumbing supply shop (Home Depot, Grainger, etc). So this is not a manufacturer / dealer specific part.

    But since you brought this up, I ended up discovering some parts can be ordered by the dealer and installed by the customer. (For example I will be replacing the front cover and insulation board). And I already replaced one of the taco auto air vents myself (bought on Amazon). But that's off topic anyway.

    Regarding your other replies... I'll give it a go with the vice grips. I also sprayed some penetrator and letting that work itself in before I take another swing at this.

    Again thank you and I appreciate your help !

    **On another note, that ball valve is two sections that can be unscrewed. So if I can find this same one I can just replace the bottom (ball valve) section in quick minute.

    Doesn't take a screwdriver 🪛 to hammer 🔨 that nail 📌
    WMno57
  • WMno57
    WMno57 Member Posts: 1,335
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    For round things, the ViseGrip 10C is better than the ViseGrip 10W.
    I DIY.
  • dko
    dko Member Posts: 611
    edited October 2023
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    I don't see any bite marks, what are you using? I understand if you are just using a crescent wrench on the drain valve, but you should be holding back with an appropriately sized pipe wrench on the tee. Then feel free to use much more leverage on the drain valve.


    WMno57Intplm.mattmia2
  • Demon
    Demon Member Posts: 6
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    dko said:

    I don't see any bite marks, what are you using? I understand if you are just using a crescent wrench on the drain valve, but you should be holding back with an appropriately sized pipe wrench on the tee. Then feel free to use much more leverage on the drain valve.


    Yes I tried with a crescent. But thank you for the pipe wrench tip. Will try that if the vice grips don't do it alone.
    Doesn't take a screwdriver 🪛 to hammer 🔨 that nail 📌
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,613
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    @Demon

    You just need bigger wrenches=more leverage.

    Put a wrench above the valve as a back up. It's easier to pull when you have something to pull against. 14" pipe wrenches will do it, maybe an 18". You can buy some cheap ones at Harbor Freight. You can also put pipe over the wrench handles for more leverage. It will come out
    hot_rodmattmia2
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,254
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    There may be a packing nut under the handle to deal with the drip
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    MikeAmann
  • dko
    dko Member Posts: 611
    edited October 2023
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    these 1/4 turn hose bibbs use an o-ring on the stem. but it is not accessible. not a rebuildable valve.
    Demon said:


    **On another note, that ball valve is two sections that can be unscrewed. So if I can find this same one I can just replace the bottom (ball valve) section in quick minute.

    If you had the ability to unscrew the two sections of the valve, you could unscrew the valve from the fitting much more easily.

    Intplm.
  • Demon
    Demon Member Posts: 6
    edited October 2023
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    @Demon

    You just need bigger wrenches=more leverage.

    Put a wrench above the valve as a back up. It's easier to pull when you have something to pull against. 14" pipe wrenches will do it, maybe an 18". You can buy some cheap ones at Harbor Freight. You can also put pipe over the wrench handles for more leverage. It will come out

    I can put the leverage I'm just worried smth unintended might break lol, so I've been holding back. Just trying this slowly. Got all the tools just need to muster the courage haha.

    From what I see you guys saying is that T and can handle a lot of force and I shouldn't worry about putting some elbow grease into removing the valve 💪
    Doesn't take a screwdriver 🪛 to hammer 🔨 that nail 📌
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,774
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    WMno57 said:

    If you had a Ferrari, Rolls Royce, or new Cadillac would you attempt to work on it yourself? I'm all for DIY but Energy Kinetics is not a good DIY boiler. For one thing, their parts are ONLY available to a select group of their dealers. I can't buy their parts, you can't buy their parts, Joe Plumber can't buy their parts, many very good Hydronic heat men, can't buy their parts.
    That's a very well made (and expensive) boiler, but it needs annual service from an EK dealer. You need to establish a relationship with an EK dealer.


    Yes, yes I would. Probably more so than I would a Kia.
    I've yet to find a part I can't get one way or another.

    WMno57 said:

    A short lived ball valve. How could that possibly happen? The HeatingHelpers all love ball valves. Ball valves are the greatest thing since sliced bread!

    What's wrong with ball valves?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • szwedj
    szwedj Member Posts: 66
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    @WMno57 For what its worth, any heating professional can buy parts or get tech support if needed from Energy Kinetics, you do not even need to have an account setup to do so. You only need to be a dealer to buy boilers for install.

    Joe Szwed
    Energy Kinetics
    Joe Szwed
    Energy Kinetics
    ChrisJrick in Alaska
  • Demon
    Demon Member Posts: 6
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    Long story short ... The valve snapped off 😞... The threading is seized solid inside the pipe. Got a plumber coming ... So much for DIY.
    Doesn't take a screwdriver 🪛 to hammer 🔨 that nail 📌
  • Demon
    Demon Member Posts: 6
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    Problem has been solved. Threading was removed using easy out pipe extractor + penetrator and a lil fire 🔥.

    Thank you everyone for the valuable advice given today !
    Doesn't take a screwdriver 🪛 to hammer 🔨 that nail 📌
    mattmia2szwedjIntplm.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,735
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    i would have suggested the slices of pie method
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,735
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    or an inside pipe wrench