Why does my gas line do this?

realliveplumber

Technically, 404.15 says capped. So that could be interpreted as saying that a cap must be used.

realliveplumber

realliveplumber

ChrisJ said:

realliveplumber said:

ChrisJ said:

Mad Dog_2 said:

Yes.. especially with gas..math matters...(Carbon monoxide issues).  They want a Nipple & cap vis-a-vis a plug, close nipple or street 90, because they feel it has more meat 🍖 on it...less chance of a thin spot that can split and leak.  A solid plug works.  Dope it up and screw it in.  

Who knows why you have unexplained and circuitous gas lines??? There's always the chance the Apprentice did it..or a DIYer.. As long as she's not leaking, deal with it all later.  Mad Dog 🐕 

The code section reads No cast iron bushings.

Malleable bushings are allowed. All day, every day.

As well as service (street) fittings.

Are any cast iron fittings allowed in gas use?

Respectfully, you stated that bushings were not allowed.

That is incorrect. Bushings are allowed. The code section regarding bushings states that cast iron bushings are not allowed. There is no code section that prohibits the use of bushings, except if they are cast iron.

JUGHNE

So how about PVC bushings on NG?

Sounds pretty risky huh?

We must use an insulating bushing outside on our gas system to isolate the interior (grounded BTW) piping from the buried steel pipe used for the service line.
There is also a bushing at the meter set in the alley.

The service line is plastic coated steel, typically 1 1/4", that is cathodically protected from corrosion.
The customer line has an anode installed to protect that line that is isolated from the utility main which has their own anode protection.

I use swing joints at the house with a 11/2" X 1 1/4" reducing 90. I have seen just a single 90 with the bushing in the bottom that can crack or pull out because of settling soil onto the line.

The meter and inches regulator are out at the alley. The bushing must be outside of the structure.

We have had this coated steel system since 1967 and I know of no leaks from pipe corrosion.
In a town this small I would have heard about it.

Mad Dog_2

Code schmode..most .Inspectors make you comply to THEIR interpretation.  Defy them?
inspection fails...No check from homeowner, mortgage don't get paid. Wife no happy!  Ha ha 😂 🤣 😆 😄.   I've had inspectors and other plumbers insist that you can't install a Shut off valve on a Water heater outlet (Hot supply).  What the code says is (to paraphrase ): "..domestic water heaters shall have a shut off valve on the cold water inlet."  They interpolate that to mean you CAN'T  put one on the Hot!  The Large gas stop cocks are Cast Iron, Chris.  Mad Dog 🐕 

ChrisJ

Lrealliveplumber said:

I can only speak of the Northeastern USA 🇺🇸,  but we cannot leave any "future" plugged tee connections in a Natural gas line run.  Inspectors want to see any appliances piped out to a plugged or capped shut off cock within a foot or so from that appliance.  

I have had them make us take this piping out and retest, OR call for another final inspection and you'd better have the appliance in place.  All of NYS and I believe NJ, Mass, Connecticut would be very similar.  Mad Dog 🐕 

In NJ we're allowed tee's with a short nipple and a cap. No plugs, for some reason. In PA I've seen tees with plugs and inspectors don't seem to care.

Where did you get that information regarding NJ?

Multiple inspectors in my area as well as I've done it. Have you heard otherwise?

Respectfully, It doesnt matter what "I've heard". Or what the inspector "says" There is no code section that says a nipple and cap is required, and that a plug is not an approved means to terminate a connection.

Where in the code does it say 2 psi isn't allowed in multi family homes?

realliveplumber

That silliness stopped in NJ years ago. Thats about the only positive thing I have to say about the government in Nj.

The plumbing and mechanical inspector continuing education classes, as well as master plumber and master hvacr contractor continuing education classes include curriculum that states that the correct code section must be cited in order to issue a not approved sticker.

We are taught that its not what the inspector says, or thinks, it's what the code says.

The majority of inspectors are well aware of this, and conduct them selves accordingly. Sure, there a few old timers that think they are the new sheriff in town, but one email shuts that down in a hurry.

Sometimes, its not worth the time or the energy to argue, so you just comply with what the inspector requests. But, there are times that it could cost a whole lot of money for the contractor, of customer, to comply with a request that is not required by the code.

For instance, say you are installing gas piping in 500 units, and nipple and reducing coupling costs $10.00, but a steel bushing costs $2.00, and the inspector issued a violation notice . You bid the job with bushings, because they are an approved fitting. It would certainly be worth your while to challenge the inspector.

This is what we are taught in our continuing education classes. Almost all of the inspectors are aware of it. They dont get there feelings hurt when you discuss it with them, a civil fashion. most are willing to listen to your concern, and will do the right thing if they are incorrect.

Mad Dog_2

Wow...That's the way it should be.  I think alot of that is attributable to your Statewide License.  When was that put in to place?  Was the State PHCC behind it?  We can't even get a County-wide License...forget about the whole state! Mad Dog 🐕 

SteamtoHotWater

PC7060 said:

yes, until the grill manages to starve the boiler because the sizing is improper

I guess I won't grill in the dead of winter or while showering ; )

However "wrong" my piping is, I never noticed any problems with a 160K BTU steam boiler and the 30K BTU water heater. If anything, using the same pipes, the combi should have less draw than the old setup. I'll definitely keep an eye on the combi and make certain it gets sufficient gas. If there's a problem, I can revisit the piping.

Mad Dog_2

Make sure you get annual inspections on your fuel burning Equipment...Carbon Monoxide detectors on each floor...You should be ok.  Mad Dog 🐕 

realliveplumber

Sorry for the derail.

You could always check the pressure with a manometer, with all of the appliances firing on high.

realliveplumber

Mad Dog_2 said:

Wow...That's the way it should be.  I think alot of that is attributable to your Statewide License.  When was that put in to place?  Was the State PHCC behind it?  We can't even get a County-wide License...forget about the whole state! Mad Dog 🐕 

The Statewide license was instituted in the 70's.

We had a really great individual in consumer affairs (who recently retired) that did a commendable job to enforce the codes as they were written, which really benefited the contractor, as well as the property owner.

And we have a particular continuing education instructor who does an outstanding job of educating the contractor, and the inspectors, as to the how to enforce the codes as they were written, and meant to be enforced.

These 2 men mostly eradicated the nonsense of the "new sheriff in town" and the "its my town" mentality

realliveplumber

ChrisJ said:

Lrealliveplumber said:

ChrisJ said:

realliveplumber said:

ChrisJ said:

Mad Dog_2 said:

I can only speak of the Northeastern USA 🇺🇸,  but we cannot leave any "future" plugged tee connections in a Natural gas line run.  Inspectors want to see any appliances piped out to a plugged or capped shut off cock within a foot or so from that appliance.  

I have had them make us take this piping out and retest, OR call for another final inspection and you'd better have the appliance in place.  All of NYS and I believe NJ, Mass, Connecticut would be very similar.  Mad Dog 🐕 

In NJ we're allowed tee's with a short nipple and a cap. No plugs, for some reason.

In PA I've seen tees with plugs and inspectors don't seem to care.

Where did you get that information regarding NJ?

Multiple inspectors in my area as well as I've done it.

Have you heard otherwise?

Respectfully, It doesnt matter what "I've heard". Or what the inspector "says"

There is no code section that says a nipple and cap is required, and that a plug is not an approved means to terminate a connection.

Where in the code does it say 2 psi isn't allowed in multi family homes?

It does not.

But, in my experience, PSE&G (Public Service Electric and Gas), who is the Utility, will not provide it.

clammy

Just getting to a point why would anyone leave a bunch of gas pipe that serves zero purpose except look like some rube w no idea ran it and everyone just let it be . I ve been in many homes in close to 40 years of phvac and when i see stuff like that there’s only a few things I think to myself .
1 well ain’t that special
2 zero craftsmanship or pride excellent
3 possibly more work so let’s leave it
4 more work means more money so again leave it
5 sooner or later it will be in the way and someone will remove or just get sick of looking at something that serves no purpose .
When I brought my home I must have remove 30 ft of gas pipe like yours went no where and served no purpose beside hanging clothes on to dry .
To each his own but most decent plumbers or hvac guys who do quality work ,when asked to Gucci things up and make beautiful would remove and square and level things off and remove things that do absolutely zippo ,what a real mech does is makes thing exceptable and not leave them for some one else to deal with .
Not bashing or judging your decision it’s your home and you get to look at it each day whether it looks like crap and serves no purpose it’s all yours . Most see no difference in what we do and think each mech or company produces the same quality and has the same work ethics and standard which they try to stick to just to ensure there giving there customers the best they can and make a fair living and possibly retire at some point before death maybe for a year or two ,none of this is cheap and doing things correctly doesn’t happen by magic it usually habit from years of sticking to your guns coupled w your exposure to a assortment of god knows what mechanically speaking . But hey ya come here for looking for advice from professionals well this is what real mech do ,clean things up make them right and safel now a handi man or good doer well he would leave it all except maybe just wipe the dust off but still give you a bill from some one who is as stated a handi men . To each his own .
Peace and good luck clammy

ChrisJ

Did @clammy just say "Gucci things up" ?

clammy

Yeah every body wants the Gucci bag but end up on canal street buying a knock off which the strap breaks 2 days later . Same goes for quality work everybody wants quality work and everything looking picture perfect well like that Gucci bag it does not come cheap and it doesn’t come fast nor rushed .
I’m very lucky that I’m getting old and at some point I’ll hang it up or croak one or the other but knowing there only a few out there doing the right thing is good enough being those who see no value will have plenty rubes, profittiers and just sales men to pick from to do there low bidding .A very old saying the sweeten of a cheaper price is soon forgotten after the bitterness of poor quality . It s words I live by being there is always some one who will work cheaper and I say hats off to both the searcher of a cheaper price and the guy who working for zip . Ps I always tell the truth it never changes especially mechanically speaking junk is junk garbage is garbage nothing changes these facts unless you look the other way . Remember real mech don’t run away from nightmare jobs like a firemen they head right to the center unless dealing w people who like a parrot just think and say how much how much in which case I generally head to the van in search of a larger screw drive in all case I don’t have one and leave to a hardware store but never find the large screw driver so I never return , get it screw driver . Can’t stand cheap people have zero time for them .
Not bitter just sick of people wasting other people’s time that’s it ,plain and simple .
Peace and good luck clammy

ChrisJ

@clammy

There's a local guy near me that does absolutely horrible work and yet I keep seeing people recommend them. I guess their work "works good enough" and people don't know any better, so, it keeps going.