Cast iron baseboard; leaking solder joint

Jersey2

jesmed1 said:

Jersey2 said:

Mad Dog_2 said:

I'm going to try it.  I'm going to say, solder will not adhere to the copper with petroleum jelly or Plumbers grease, Duck Butter, et cetera.  Its going to bead off...Mad Dog 

I tried it despite knowing better lol. No it does not work. It makes me question the Plumber Pete story.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=b-ES_It7d9w

Of course it doesn't work. That's why every joint that Pete greased leaked when he turned the water back on. But he didn't do it because he thought grease would work, he did it because he thought a container of grease was a container of flux.

Probably some old timer swapped out Pete's flux with a can of grease :-) And Pete probably had very poor eyesight :-)

Mad Dog_2

I think I'm going to Try Kerry Gold Irish Butter!   Ha ha 😂 🤣 😆 😄 😅 Mad Dog 🐕 

mattmia2

Mad Dog_2 said:

I think I'm going to Try Kerry Gold Irish Butter!   Ha ha 😂 🤣 😆 😄 😅 Mad Dog 🐕 

try maple syrup

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Mad Dog_2 you mean like sending the apprentice to the supply house for 1 3/4 "pipe

oldcastiron

Thank you all for your help! I've finished replacing the pipes. While I was at it, I also replaced the old backflow preventer and autofill valve with a Caleffi 573, and added isolation valves before and after. Replaced the steel expansion tank shutoff valve as well. Pictures below!

I have run into another issue though. When I refilled the system, the boiler heated up to 180 F and the pressure on the boiler gauge was 10 psi. However, even though I could feel the circulating pumps running for both zones, the pipes were not getting hot. All the hot water was staying inside the boiler. Could I be getting air locked? I remember running into this issue last year when I first moved into the house and I had to call a plumber to resolve the issue for me. He purged using the two drain valves, hooking up a hose to a bucket and running water until no more air bubbles. I'm trying to do the same but I don't remember if the boiler should be on or the circulating pumps should be on while doing this. Do the return shutoff valves need to be shut? Somehow, very little or no water is coming out of the right zone drain, while the left one is draining fine. I have the Caleffi set at 25 psi while purging.

neilc

the picture with the hose,
turn off the boiler,
turn off both those ball valves under the purge bibs,
now open the hose and let it flow as you described above, till no bubbles come out in the bucket,
you may want to increase pressure with a fast fill, don't go to high, no more than 20-25, you don't want to pop the 30psi safety valve,
as you go bubbles free, open and reclose the ball valve under the hose a time or 2 just to burp there, if you get much air, burp more, purge more,
bubble free?
shut off the hose, and fast fill (pressure less than 25)
switch to that other loop and do as above,
that should get you there,

set pressure back down to 12 if you need to,
take off the hose,
open both ball valves,
and start the boiler,

I see one more thing,
with your type ceiling mount compression tank,
you DO NOT want that auto air vent to remain open,
it will deplete the air cushion in the tank,
you can use it for first filling,
but close down the air cap on when you put the system back in service.

oldcastiron

Should mention that it is a one story home with a basement. The boiler setup is in the basement.

oldcastiron

Setting the thermostat to a higher temperature to call for heat doesn't seem to turn on the pumps unless the boiler is also on (controlled by the "winter on summer off" switch). There are no zone valves, only two thermostats that turn on the circulating pumps for their respective zones when the boiler is on.

neilc

you don't want the boiler or circs on to purge,
if you had zone valves you would need to manually open the zone valves,
just purge as i wrote above

oldcastiron

I tried what @neilc said but water no longer comes out of either drain. I don't hear the water filling anymore either. Boiler pressure gauge shows 7 or 8 psi. The Caleffi is set to 12 psi.

I also didn't touch the air vent on the taco air-scoop. I wasn't home when the plumber came to drain the system initially so I'm not sure if he touched it at all. How would I cap it? The bleeder valve(?) on top appears stuck with corrosion.

oldcastiron

Ramping up the Caleffi to 20 or 25psi doesn't do anything either. Don't hear any water movement at all.

oldcastiron

While filling, it would make sense that air has to leave the system somewhere while the water is taking its place. If there is no place for air to leave, water cannot enter. Where is that supposed to be happening?

I also noticed this coming off a tee whose other branch is the air scoop:

jesmed1

oldcastiron said:

While filling, it would make sense that air has to leave the system somewhere while the water is taking its place. If there is no place for air to leave, water cannot enter. Where is that supposed to be happening?

Air doesn't have to leave, but it does have to compress, and it will compress wherever it exists (mostly in the expansion tank) until it equalizes pressure with your regulator inlet setting.

Even though there's 4-5 psi difference showing between your boiler pressure gauge and your regulator setting, those pressures may actually be equal. Boiler pressure gauges can be inaccurate. A 5 psi error is quite possible. I know my boiler pressure gauge is off by at least that much. So if the pressure is already equalized, you won't get any more water coming in from the regulator.

But when you ramp up to 20-25 psi and still hear no inflow, and see no change in the boiler pressure, then there's either a valve closed somewhere, or something else is blocking the inflow. Normally you'd see the boiler pressure gauge rise, and water would be flowing into the expansion tank and compressing the air cushion inside.

oldcastiron

But if I increase my Caleffi to 25 psi, the boiler stays at 7-8 psi. Yesterday at least when I first pressurized the system, I could see the boiler gauge moving up to 10 psi, but today after purging it appears to no longer fill.

dko

Did you happen to turn the knob on the bottom of the caleffi? it is a shut off valve so make sure it's open

neilc

or is there another valve turned off further back toward the domestic meter ?

you could try isolating the calife and breaking the first union then cracking the supply side ball valve and confirm flow,
do both sides of calefi,

neilc

that red body, and I think there's a green one at your air scoop, are flow checks, turn those levers on top open, counterclockwise, and count the turns so you can set them back,

neilc

and post a wide veiw of boiler, floor to ceiling, so we see the whole picture, a couple differnt angles

oldcastiron

So I loosened the first (leftmost) union and re-confirmed that the shutoff valve does let water through the strainer just before the backflow preventer. However, I unscrewed the threaded right side of the Caleffi unit, just before the right shutoff valve, and no water was coming through. I'll need to dig into why. The bottom gray shutoff on the Caleffi is fully open, so that's not the problem.

oldcastiron

This picture shows what I mean. If I open the upstream iso valve, no water is coming through on the right. The Caleffi is set to 25 psi so it should be well above atmospheric pressure.

neilc

what's the top dial set to?
did it get turned the wrong way ?

bang on the valve body a little

jesmed1

There's a spring-loaded check valve inside the Caleffi just before the right-side outlet. Maybe stuck closed?

The backflow preventer is also a spring-loaded check valve. Either one of those could be stuck.

dko

Good video with cutaway of the valve to help you visualize.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LHDTOO7ehw

EBEBRATT-Ed

Take the left union apart and remove the Caleffi and the backflow preventer and put it on a bench so you can work on it.

You could have a plugged strainer or a stuck check valve like others have said

mattmia2

You need to open that flow check while purging using the knob on top.

edit: but i see that there is no water out of the prv itself so you need to figure out if you're turning the knob the wrong way or there is some shipping material that wasn't removed or if it is actually defective.

realliveplumber

If you are purging in the direction of flow, you do not need to lift the flow check.

It will most likely leak at the packing if you touch it.

oldcastiron

My issue with the valve was that I should've turned the screw to adjust it, instead of turning the plastic label. That plus the fact that for some reason it came adjusted at 0psi out of the box instead of 15psi. It's now working and I was able to get heat to the whole house.

Now for a final issue; while I was purging the expansion tank, the drain valve has started leaking (not at the packing, but from the spigot). Just a slow drip, but I'm wondering how I should remedy this. Is this just a threaded connection that I can just twist off with a wrench? Don't want to break the tank and necessitate a replacement.

mattmia2

It unscrews form the boiler. you could just replace the washer too. In either case the bigger part of the process will be draining the boiler and possibly the system if you can't isolate the system.

STEAM DOCTOR

You can get a cap to screw on

EBEBRATT-Ed

just by a hose cap and cap the valve

ChrisJ

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

just by a hose cap and cap the valve

Interesting thing about those brass caps.
I have them all over my steam system.

The rubber washers turned rock hard to the point I had to bust them out. I replaced them with red silicone rubber discs I cut out of a sheet of silicone.

They may tolerate the heat in a hot water system, but they don't last on steam. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if 180F does the same thing, but may take a little longer.

mattmia2

ChrisJ said:

Interesting thing about those brass caps.
I have them all over my steam system.

The rubber washers turned rock hard to the point I had to bust them out. I replaced them with red silicone rubber discs I cut out of a sheet of silicone.

You can buy silicone o-ring hose washers although silicone's compatibility with water isn't great, epdm is probably better.

ChrisJ

mattmia2 said:

ChrisJ said:

Interesting thing about those brass caps.
I have them all over my steam system.

The rubber washers turned rock hard to the point I had to bust them out. I replaced them with red silicone rubber discs I cut out of a sheet of silicone.

You can buy silicone o-ring hose washers although silicone's compatibility with water isn't great, epdm is probably better.

I've never heard of silicone having issues with water.
That would be a first for me?

mattmia2

Er, I guess it is the chlorides. I knew there was a reason I didn't use silicone when I was looking for something for water filters that wouldn't fossilize. One chart says it is excellent, another says don't do it for silicone with water.

neilc

that tank drain should never see 180* water