Should there be a liner in an old American Standard Arcoliner Boiler (maybe 1940s - 1950s)?

j0hns

Right now my American Standard Arcoliner Boiler only has a ceramic fiber board leaning against the back wall of the fire chamber with no other liner material in there. The fiber board is in poor condition and needs replacing ASAP, but I wanted to ask some questions before purchasing a new one.

1.) Is it normal (safe) for these boilers to only have a ceramic fiber board with no other liner material in the fire chamber?

2.) Is there a better (safer) more modern way to add a liner to these old boilers?

There is currently no insulation on the floor of my combustion chamber except for the debris that I intentionally left in there. I was afraid to run it with no insulation on the floor so I never vacuumed out all the debris. Now I want to do it right and add some insulation or clean it out if it is unnecessary.

3.) Should I add a ceramic fiber insulation blanket to cover the floor of the combustion chamber such as this one or is this not needed?

I have so many more questions on this boiler, but I'm trying to stay focused on properly insulating my boilers combustion chamber first.

Any help will be much appreciated!

You can check out some pictures of my boiler here on Google Photos. I also included some photos below.

Steamhead

Yes, that boiler is supposed to have a "bathtub" type chamber ("liner") in it. Lynn Manufacturing specifies their #1001 for your boiler.

You'll need a pro to properly install the chamber and properly tune the burner for it. Also, it would help to baffle the flue passages to slow down the hot flue gases so they give off more heat to the cast-iron.

Where are you located? We might know someone who can help.

HVACNUT

Lynn Quikie 1. But not DIY. 

j0hns

Steamhead said:

Where are you located? We might know someone who can help.

I live in Pawcatuck, CT 06379.

j0hns

Steamhead said:

Also, it would help to baffle the flue passages to slow down the hot flue gases so they give off more heat to the cast-iron.

Is the red piece of metal above the fiber board here in this photo considered a baffle or is there something different that needs to be installed?

STEVEusaPA

Probably 40% system efficiency, 50% at best. IOW 50-60 cents of every dollar you spend on heating oil is going up the chimney. Let that 80 year old coal converted boiler retire.

Steamhead

j0hns said:

Steamhead said:

Also, it would help to baffle the flue passages to slow down the hot flue gases so they give off more heat to the cast-iron.

Is the red piece of metal above the fiber board here in this photo considered a baffle or is there something different that needs to be installed?

That's one baffle. When this type of boiler is to stay in service for a while, I like to install baffles in the flue passages behind the upper cleanout door.

@STEVEusaPA has a point, in that this boiler will not achieve the same efficiency as a new one. However, it will do surprisingly well with a modern burner (which you already have) a proper firebox and proper baffles.

j0hns

STEVEusaPA said:

Probably 40% system efficiency, 50% at best. IOW 50-60 cents of every dollar you spend on heating oil is going up the chimney. Let that 80 year old coal converted boiler retire.

I agree and it might be something we consider doing soon or maybe next year.

bburd

I had one of those boilers. It had a "bathtub" combustion chamber and the original baffle. With a Beckett  flame retention burner it did 80% or better on combustion tests. Due to the high mass the standby loss was significant, but it kept the basement around 60°F through New England winters. They are easy to service, built like tanks, and last a long time.

Respect your elders. 😎

j0hns

bburd said:

I had one of those boilers. It had a "bathtub" combustion chamber and the original baffle. With a Beckett  flame retention burner it did 80% or better on combustion tests. Due to the high mass the standby loss was significant, but it kept the basement around 60°F through New England winters. They are easy to service, built like tanks, and last a long time.

Respect your elders. 😎

Yea, it is amazing they last so long and I love how easy it is to clean and service. Seems like it could last many more years if I take care of it properly. Thanks for the info! I may consider hanging onto this one a bit longer.

HVACNUT

j0hns said:

I agree and it might be something we consider doing soon or maybe next year.

If I had a nickel...

j0hns

Steamhead said:

Yes, that boiler is supposed to have a "bathtub" type chamber ("liner") in it. Lynn Manufacturing specifies their #1001 for your boiler.

You'll need a pro to properly install the chamber and properly tune the burner for it. Also, it would help to baffle the flue passages to slow down the hot flue gases so they give off more heat to the cast-iron.

OK, I am defiantly going to look into purchasing a "bathtub" type combustion chamber liner and then try to find a professional to install it. Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it!

j0hns

Steamhead said:

That's one baffle. When this type of boiler is to stay in service for a while, I like to install baffles in the flue passages behind the upper cleanout door.

Ok, I need to look into what exactly you mean by installing baffles in the flue passages. Is there any chance you have a picture of what this looks like?

Steamhead

Usually we use bricks, but those look too narrow. I just picked up a customer with that same boiler, let me work on it.

clammy

Just to throw this out there as much as you love that old acro liner and as good as she’s been to you and your home ,even if properly baffled and tuned to a hi combustion eff that boiler will never operate as efficiently as a new boiler . Just alone on the mass of cast that your heating as compared to a modern oil fired cast iron boiler the newer one will usually consume about 40% less fuel . Now this is just my experiences from the past when I worked for a oil company and would yank many of those out and install Weil Mc clean golds and the customers and the oil deliveries told the savings being they where delivering about 1/3 less gallon per season . I had seen a lot of this especially when installing buderus water boilers drastic cut in fuel use usually at a min of 30 to 40 % less oil used over the course to a heating season a great reason to update . Even more of a reason is as time goes on the costs of replacement will never get cheaper and the price of getting quality work and proper piping done right correctly the first time and only once will be getting rarer and rarer and you ll find that good steam guys are not the same as ever plumber and or hvac contractor they do not grow on trees and they don’t bargain on what they do being there in a small group of gentlemen who know exactly what works what don’t and the difference between the two and that even after a boiler is piped and running there’s still the job of cleaning wanding and flushing the boiler and the wet returns and all the stuff most do not and usually don’thave a clue and suggest the surging is normal and you should take care of it ? Sorry for the rant but are you still driving a model t ? At some point the cost of operation will become a complete negative and when you go to sell your home don’t except the perspective new home owner to be thrilled w a 70 year old boiler you ll be looking at chopping a quick 20 g right off the asking price if your lucky and that would be cheap . So remember it will never be cheap to replace but as time goes on like all things it will never go down only up . Ps only an old timer will baffle that beast most young oil techs won’t dare attempt it and are clueless plus un baffled the heat goes right up the stack especially w a new hi rpm burner when originally she had a lower rpm non flame retention burner that just licked the chamber fuel was ridiculously cheap . Another quick note would be that usually all of those arcoliner where close to 40 % oversized for the edr of the connective load and when a replacement is installed properly sized to the connective edr of your system with a pick up factor it’s usually as stated about 40 to 50 smaller then the original boiler usually big savings also on fuel use. All just good for thought and energy savings . Again none of this is bashing but telling the truth and I know most oil companies love those old boilers they burn a lot of fuel and they like that cause there in the business of selling so it’s a win win for them to keep those old boiler going cause somebodies got to burn a lot of oil to keep them in profits being w oil co the money is made selling oil not in service or installations and that’s a very old mantra I know to personally be a truth . More in selling oil then installing I was always told service is the losing end . Peace and good luck
Clammy

WMno57

The term Coal Converted could be misleading. Although the general layout is a coal burning design, that particular boiler never burned coal. It was tested and sold by American Standard as oil burning. We know this because of the tag. The design might be somewhat less efficient than later designs, but they do tend to last a long time.

EdTheHeaterMan

Should there be a liner in an old American Standard Arcoliner Boiler (maybe 1940s - 1950s)?

Dah! ARCOLINER. of course it needs a LINER!

clammy

I have to catch myself there is money in service . When u sell each customer a yearly service contract and a boiler or furnace cleaning it keeps the service guys busy in the summer and kinda free money rolling in when no fuel is rolling out like in the winter plus if you have 1000 or 10,000 customers it adds up quick . So there is money in service and it helps float them through the summer . But as I know it most service tech aren’t the fondest of doing 5 cleanings a day so usually the most min of cleaning is done . They would have to do less of them and charge more for you to get a proper cleaning and burner service ,it should be more than a quick filter noz strainer and a brush down . .
Peace and good luck clammy