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Suntec pump leak or return line leak ...

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seized123
seized123 Member Posts: 297
edited August 2023 in Oil Heating
So on a (future) one-pipe system with Tigerloop and anti-siphon valve:

1) With the Tigerloop, I infer that the anti-siphon valve would not detect a leak in the short return line between pump and Tigerloop, as the anti-siphon closes when it senses loss of vacuum, and it seems to me that with such a leak the pump can keep on applying vacuum to the supply line while happily spilling oil from the return. In case of such a return line leak, especially a larger one, is that what would happen? Would the leak want to leak at pump capacity (unlike a purely one-line system with much lower gph)? Are there any measures that can be taken to mitigate such a leak there? It seems to me that, when this new system is installed, this small return line to TL will be the weakest link consequences-of-leak-wise. If I could do without the Tigerloop I would, since the anti-siphon would then detect any leak from tank to burner (the valve I'm getting goes at the aboveground tank top), but the valve manufacturer requires a de-aerator and I don't want to void the warranty.

2) I've heard about blown pump seals (or "blown pumps"), I don't really know what it means; will there then necessarily be loss of vacuum, so the anti-siphon valve will close (again, assuming the existence of a return line to the TL)? And in general if the seal goes, will I necessarily see a leak, or can bad things just happen internally, and what would those bad things be? What can cause the seal/ pump to "blow" or otherwise destruct?

Nutty questions maybe, but I'm trying to learn as much about this stuff as I can - it's endless, I see why it takes decades to get really good at all this.

Thanks in advance.




Comments

  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 998
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    Blowing the pump seal would happen if/when the pump's output becomes blocked.
    Then the pressure would have nowhere to go and the seal would then rupture.
  • seized123
    seized123 Member Posts: 297
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    Doesn't sound like a likely event. Would the leak become obvious on the outside?
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 998
    edited August 2023
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    Not necessarily. Oil would eventually leak out from the split in the burner housing and onto the floor.
    By then everything inside would be coated with oil and maybe even soot.
    The seal is on the shaft end of the pump that connects to the pump coupling and squirrel cage fan INSIDE the housing.

    Hint: it's the green thing.
  • seized123
    seized123 Member Posts: 297
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    Whoa. That wouldn’t be good. Would that oil get schpritzed from the squirrel cage past the nozzle into the chamber, causing havoc? What might you notice wrong?
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,889
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    seized123 said:

    Whoa. That wouldn’t be good. Would that oil get schpritzed from the squirrel cage past the nozzle into the chamber, causing havoc? What might you notice wrong?

    Yup. Quite a mess. A major oil leak.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • seized123
    seized123 Member Posts: 297
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    Is that something one should check for periodically, say by flipping up the transformer and looking inside? Or would there be other noticeable symptoms?
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 998
    edited August 2023
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    Would that oil get schpritzed from the squirrel cage past the nozzle into the chamber, causing havoc?
    YES.
    When the boiler fired, there would be a BOOM. And you should smell the oil.
    When enough oil coated the insides, you would see a drip on the floor below the burner.
  • seized123
    seized123 Member Posts: 297
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    I think I want a heat pump… (Just kidding, maybe.)
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
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    @seized123, please don't get a heat pump. If for the only reason you asked 300 questions about oil lines.
    I don't think we can do it again with heat pumps, thermostats, air flow etc...

    But to answer your questions:
    1. Yes That's a main reason why 2 pipe is never recommended by most, and Tiger Poops are never recommended unless absolutely needed, which is almost never. Oil dearators and their crap hoses have an expiration date and manufacturer's recommended replacement date. If oil leaks after that date from their components, it's not on them. Which is why if I have to use a oil deaerator, I started hard piping them. Although a manufacturer's rep on FB started selling a newer style red flex hose that seems to look promising.

    2. Easiest and quickest way to blow a pump seal is to have a return line closed or restricted-another reason to avoid 2 pipe and Tiger Poops. Oh and high input pressure.
    Other than that, they rarely just blow, and they rarely fail. Don't even think I replaced one last season.

    How often should you check it...never. How often should your oil burner tech check it...annually.
    If you don't smell nothing, don't hear nothing, and don't see nothing when you walk by the burner, there's nothing to fix, but you can make it worse constantly touching it.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    MikeAmann
  • seized123
    seized123 Member Posts: 297
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    @STEVEusaPA I have not asked 300 questions, I have asked 423.5, and if you want me to drive you even more nuts see the latest post on the old 2 to 1 pipe thread, complete with diagram.
    MikeAmann
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
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    What was the .5?

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • seized123
    seized123 Member Posts: 297
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    It's when I asked "What should I do if ..." and then I guess I fell off my chair or smelled dinner burning. If you have time, check out the diagram in the 2 to 1 line post, I'm interested in your opinion.

    I think I'll try some DIY rocket science, it has to be simpler than oil heating and HVAC.