Need to add a takeoff to existing SpacePak system

cwp

Hey everyone.

We have an existing SpacePak system that was installed prior to moving in to our current house. The previous installer forgot (don't ask as there seems to be some drama with the previous owner and the installer) to hook up one for the ports (already terminated in the ceiling) to the main plenum for one of the bedrooms. I called to get a quote for someone to hook up the 1 connection and it was astronomical.

It's a fully accessible, finished attic run of about 35-40 ft, the termination has already been done in the ceiling with a quick connect installed on the end. All that needs to be done is to have a takeoff installed in the main plenum and the hose connected.

My question is, I could certainly do this myself but I lack the knowledge as to where to add the takeoff on the main plenum (square version) without compromising the existing efficiency.

Any suggestions or tips would be amazing if anyone has any.

Even if I end up having someone else do it, I would at least like to understand how it should be approached.

Thanks!

EdTheHeaterMan

Please remove the pricing from the post. You can click on the three dots on the upper right side of the comment to bring up a menu of one item EDIT. Click on Edit and you can remove the price... This is one of our rules here.

Having installed that type system, the price quoted to do that single take off sounds like a Cover Your Addiaire (CYA) price or a price for a job they don't want but if it is worthwhile, then why not. What you are describing sounds like an hour or less for an experienced installer of High Velocity systems.


That said You should call other contractors because getting the proper parts and tools to make the connections will be difficult for the non-pro


EDIT:
What problems are you experiencing that might make you believe that this one duct connection will resolve? Running one duct takeoff for more than 10 feet will substantially reduce the cooling capacity of that run. Are you saying that you need one 2" duct to run 35 to 40 feet? Is the 2" duct (hose) already there? Can you provide more insight?

cwp

Sorry, I removed the price.

Yeah I expect that is the reason they priced it so high but even that is a bit much.

The room was made to have 2 connections and only 1 is connected. The room is a little warm in the summer so it would be nice to have the second one working. The rest of the house cools just fine.

I've attached a couple of pictures to show the setup. You can see the 3ft section that comes through the ceiling with the quick connect on it already (2nd pic). That needs to be run approx 30-40 feet (though I haven't actually measured) to reach the main supply plenum (the pic with all of the ducts). I would expect it to only take an hour or 2 and I know the parts (mostly the supply hosing) is pretty expensive for a 100ft length, though I was hoping a contractor might have some leftover from another job.

The missing parts would be the 30-40ft of 2" duct, quick connects, takeoffs and possibly the tape or mastic or whatever else they might use to seal it.

Big Ed_4

You can cut in the new takeoff , there is a minimum distance between takeoffs in the installation manual . And a minimum distance from the air handler on the plenum . Google the instructions and run it your self . The duct material was first used on the heater for the old VW Beetle .

If someone saved a roll of duct , I am sure they did not save it for a discount for another .

Good luck

cwp

Thanks! Yeah I have already looked at some of that but will read up on it a little more and probably just do it myself. Amazing regarding the VW info!

Haha yeah I doubt it too but you never know.

Thanks! Appreciate the reply.

EdTheHeaterMan

Here is the installation manual for the square plenum duct
https://www.literature.mestek.com/dms/SpacePak/SpacePak/SDBMG2-311.pdf
You will need to order (or find)
30 feet of Supply Tubing AC-ST6-1
1 Square Plenum Take-off BM-30
1 Roll of metal or mastic duct tape.

Here is the power point training class for the technicians that are learning to install the product.
Look at slides starting at #96 for info on what you want to do. https://www.literature.mestek.com/dms/SpacePak/Spacepak SDHV Certification 3-29-22.pdf

https://www.grainger.com/product/SPACEPAK-Supply-Tubing-1-Pack-Qty-4MHP4
https://www.grainger.com/product/SPACEPAK-Plenum-Take-Offs-1-Pack-Qty-4MHT8?cpnuser=undefined&searchBar=true&searchQuery=bm-3008&suggestConfigId=7&ts_optout=false&tier=Tier+6

After looking at the price of 100 ft of new duct, and considering that I would need to purchase, that if I didn't have30 ft left from a previous job, That price you posted earlier may not be so bad after you consider the mark-up on material then the labor and the set up time. On any one hour to two hour job, I would always allow a half day for an employee to do this job. Employees will take the time to have a conversation with the customer, then set up the needed tools, actually do the work, clean up the tools and place everything back in the service truck. I'm lucky to see that employee for a second morning assignment after your job. I might bid the same price in that situation.

If I had some left over duct and connectors, I might bid about 25% lower. WOW that duct is Expensive.

mattmia2

Some goolging might find you a cut section of duct or a remnant.

EdTheHeaterMan

This might fit https://www.ebay.com/itm/334780134420?hash=item4df2737414:g:8u0AAOSwd3dj3oXq&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAAwCetstrI4Y7+pkZm7Qf9lqs1uodqK+ry7uEP446Ox73m52L/t6k7TCE7kqWDRJlTD+TbPYIeUohyLjzX2j07XBDb26uDGXnmAMI4dPntveep+uk1b1CApY4ikHdZNgfqseSp8FYYaQ01XCnsXX6+iDhT7AeIteSRyDPjvPHqtJTTVH/vxsgpAJLmNcCXx540IMBboY2MPs7dwpXl61cD9jODJDaf17oMCScKLMfn9AJ2PtiA4F3jMDOa0b+ayKSIyg==|tkp:Bk9SR5bz0uybYg
I'm pretty sure this is the same stuff. I have used this on space pak systems in the past and I don't remember any problems. I sold Unico system when I needed High Velocity Duct system. I remember repairing an older spacepak with Unico 2" duct. But that was so long ago...

cwp

EdTheHeaterMan said:

Here is the installation manual for the square plenum duct
https://www.literature.mestek.com/dms/SpacePak/SpacePak/SDBMG2-311.pdf
You will need to order (or find)
30 feet of Supply Tubing AC-ST6-1
1 Square Plenum Take-off BM-30
1 Roll of metal or mastic duct tape.

Here is the power point training class for the technicians that are learning to install the product.
Look at slides starting at #96 for info on what you want to do. https://www.literature.mestek.com/dms/SpacePak/Spacepak SDHV Certification 3-29-22.pdf

https://www.grainger.com/product/SPACEPAK-Supply-Tubing-1-Pack-Qty-4MHP4
https://www.grainger.com/product/SPACEPAK-Plenum-Take-Offs-1-Pack-Qty-4MHT8?cpnuser=undefined&searchBar=true&searchQuery=bm-3008&suggestConfigId=7&ts_optout=false&tier=Tier+6

After looking at the price of 100 ft of new duct, and considering that I would need to purchase, that if I didn't have30 ft left from a previous job, That price you posted earlier may not be so bad after you consider the mark-up on material then the labor and the set up time. On any one hour to two hour job, I would always allow a half day for an employee to do this job. Employees will take the time to have a conversation with the customer, then set up the needed tools, actually do the work, clean up the tools and place everything back in the service truck. I'm lucky to see that employee for a second morning assignment after your job. I might bid the same price in that situation.

If I had some left over duct and connectors, I might bid about 25% lower. WOW that duct is Expensive.

Thanks for looking up all of this stuff! I was looking at Grainger too and I will probably get most of the hardware from them. I'll search around for some duct elsewhere (eBay, etc) and hopefully be able to get it for a bit cheaper than a new box. I'm honestly surprised it costs so much but then again, everything is pricey these days.

For sure about the quote, I just figured it would be a bit more reasonable but I get the markup costs and time. Am I willing to pay that much if I can do it myself, and properly, probably not. That or the rooms stays a bit warmer lol.

Appreciate all the research you've done. Thanks!

PC7060

Have you measured the static pressure to make sure you can add another takeoff? SpacePak specifies a static pressure in the plenum of between 1.2-1.5 atm measured 18-24” from the blower unit. 

 30-40’ feet is a very long run.  Typical runs are 10-15’; 12’ of duct plus 3’ sound attenuator.  

Spacing of the takeoffs looks correct, I believe the minimum is 24”.  

PS: I’ve got extra line and takeoffs from my Spacepak install. Where area do you live?

Big Ed_4

The HV systems were always expensive . I would have installed a lot more if they were not ..

cwp

PC7060 said:

Have you measured the static pressure to make sure you can add another takeoff? SpacePak specifies a static pressure in the plenum of between 1.2-1.5 atm measured 18-24” from the blower unit. 

 30-40’ feet is a very long run.  Typical runs are 10-15’; 12’ of duct plus 3’ sound attenuator.  

Spacing of the takeoffs looks correct, I believe the minimum is 24”.  

PS: I’ve got extra line and takeoffs from my Spacepak install. Where area do you live?

I haven't as I don't have the tools to test it but that was my concern as well.

The problem is the initial install doesn't allow for a shorter run so my options are limited.

Interesting! I am actually in Canada but the closest I would be near would be Niagara Falls or Buffalo, NY. I travel there all of the time.

Interesting. How much do you happen to have of the line?

cwp

So there has been a new find. Though it's crazy and makes me start to question the install.

I was looking to find if there was a spot that I could install a take off that would allow for a similar clearance from the others and I noticed something that was not like the others...lol.

There is already a friggin' takeoff installed on one of the main supplies but there is no line connected to it! It's just venting into the attic! Ugh! Talk about a mess of a mystery.

So this is good news because I won't need to figure out where the takeoff will be. The unfortunate thing is it is even further away from where I need to run the line than the others. I feel like the messed up the order of the install of the lines and then ended up with an extra. Also it looks to be much to close to the other takeoffs to meet the minimum requirement, but I'm not sure there is much I can do with it unless I close it off and install it in another spot if it's even possible.

There is mastic on both takeoffs on either side of the open one I am talking about so it seems like they either forgot, which is hard to believe, or they thought no one would notice because it's tucked way back behind a wall that was cut for the install access.

Anyway, such a shame it was done this way but I think I will still try to run the line even though it's a bit long. I understand the issues that come with a longer line but I'm not looking for peak performance, as long as it adds a bit of airflow to the room.

PC7060

Those takeoffs are simple to remove; retained by a clip. Remove the takeoff and seal the hole with sheet metal and aluminum HVAC tape. 

Good news is you will have the take off you need! Just need the tube and the sound suppressor. 

I don’t recall exact amount of tub I have but over 40’/ 10 meters