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Banging zone valves- are valves in the right orientation

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Bobby_masticator
Bobby_masticator Member Posts: 7
edited May 2023 in Plumbing
Hi all,

I have annoyingly loud banging zone values (EPH) on my 3-zone system. It is a tall narrow house (maybe that makes the water hammer worse). Anyway, I put in a ton of clips to brace the pipes; the pipes would be held too by the hollow core concrete floor, but it still needs to be eliminated. I thought my zones were in the correct orientation. But I should check with the experts. I am attaching a picture with arrows showing the direction as marked on the brass part of the valves. Are they correct? Should the valve be moved to be further away?

Comments

  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,548
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    You must be in the UK
    I do not think moving the valves away is going to make a difference.
    Which model of the Joule do you have ?
    More pictures of Circulating pumps and expansion tanks would help..
    HomerJSmith
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,254
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    Some of the causes are
    Wrong flow direction.
    Oversized circulator
    Fast closing valve type

    You are sure about flow direction, send a pic of the circulator model, remove the valve cover and take a pic, sometimes there is a hack to slow the close off speed
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,467
    edited May 2023
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    How long has it been going on and what if anything has changed? What kind of pump? Does the sound come from one zone or all of them
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,861
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    Is that flex line a bypass? One valve is mostly open and the other is closed.
    Can't really make out the piping on the left side.
  • Bobby_masticator
    Bobby_masticator Member Posts: 7
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    The banging was always occurring, since purchase of house. It seems to be only the downstairs heating. The cylinder is Joule Cyclone 300L. The house is powered with a gas boiler and I think that has a built in circulator. All I can show is the shower pump which I think is unrelated.
    The flex line is a pipe to add water to the heating when needed (fill loop).
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,254
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    Interesting looking duel ended pump?  Looks like a domestic water booster pump?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    kcopp
  • Bobby_masticator
    Bobby_masticator Member Posts: 7
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    hot_rod said:

    Interesting looking duel ended pump?  Looks like a domestic water booster pump?

    I think that is what it does. Makes a very powerful shower
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,548
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    The banging was always occurring, since purchase of house. It seems to be only the downstairs heating. The cylinder is Joule Cyclone 300L. The house is powered with a gas boiler and I think that has a built in circulator. All I can show is the shower pump which I think is unrelated.
    The flex line is a pipe to add water to the heating when needed (fill loop).

    Although this manufacturer was present at the last ISH this year in Frankfurt i did not pay much attention to the products. :|
    This manufacturer with boiler/waterheater equipment that is used in this heating system is not something that we see here in the USA.
    We do have similar products .

    On the upper right hand side in front of the expansion tank is a Black foamed box that may have a heating system circulation pump inside of it..Can you pull the cover off a send some Pictures?.
    Also: The Expansion tank ( Which may be for the Domestic water) that is held up with "Holy Iron" may be waterlogged..|
    A simple preliminary "knock Test" with a screw driver could shed some light on this,
    If the expansion tank sounds solid from the top to the bottom it is waterlogged, If it sounds like Tin or has a charge of sound it still has air or as most of the UK heating professionals use Nitrogen in it.

  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,548
    Options

    The banging was always occurring, since purchase of house. It seems to be only the downstairs heating. The cylinder is Joule Cyclone 300L. The house is powered with a gas boiler and I think that has a built in circulator. All I can show is the shower pump which I think is unrelated.
    The flex line is a pipe to add water to the heating when needed (fill loop).

    Although this manufacturer was present at the last ISH this year in Frankfurt i did not pay much attention to the products. :|
    This manufacturer with boiler/waterheater equipment that is used in this heating system is not something that we see here in the USA.
    We do have similar products .

    On the upper right hand side in front of the expansion tank is a Black foamed box that may have a heating system circulation pump inside of it..Can you pull the cover off a send some Pictures?.
    Also: The Expansion tank ( Which may be for the Domestic water) that is held up with "Holy Iron" may be waterlogged..|
    A simple preliminary "knock Test" with a screw driver could shed some light on this,
    If the expansion tank sounds solid from the top to the bottom it is waterlogged, If it sounds like Tin or has a charge of sound it still has air or as most of the UK heating professionals use Nitrogen in it.

    Edit: BTW: I think that your "Boiler" is heated via electricity.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,254
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    Is there a solar thermal input to that tank?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Bobby_masticator
    Bobby_masticator Member Posts: 7
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    hot_rod said:

    Is there a solar thermal input to that tank?

    Yes! There is a solar thermal. It has various parts on the top right, but this only provides hot water for washing. I don't think this zone bangs.
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,548
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    hot_rod said:

    Is there a solar thermal input to that tank?

    Yes! There is a solar thermal. It has various parts on the top right, but this only provides hot water for washing. I don't think this zone bangs.
    That will explain the what we call a "Pump station" in front of your waterlogged expansion tank that is on a tilt due to the added weight.

    I still do not see a circ for the heat unless it is the double volute Grundfos circ.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,254
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    Most of the stuff you are showing is for the domestic water. The booster pump, solar pump station, dual coil indirect. Maybe off to the left is more of the heating equipment

    Should be another circulator pump somewhere.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Bobby_masticator
    Bobby_masticator Member Posts: 7
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    hot_rod said:

    Most of the stuff you are showing is for the domestic water. The booster pump, solar pump station, dual coil indirect. Maybe off to the left is more of the heating equipment

    Should be another circulator pump somewhere.

    I think the circulator is built into the Ideal 15KW gas boiler (see photo). I contacted my gas servicer can he alter the circulator, as doing it myself is illegal here. The boiler and I guess the circulator, would be about 20 ft from the zone valves.



  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,254
    edited May 2023
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    Its down a bit lower I think there is a monoblock inside. It has a pump that either does heating or a plate heat exchanger. I doubt that changing the pump is an option. A pressure bypass valve could be installed if the pump is too large for the heating loops.

    Plenty of UK contractors on You Tube talking about that boiler, it is a big brand in the UK. Should be able to find a nearby, knowledgable service person?

    Other than the "deer in the headlights" look about him, this chap seems knowledgable. Maybe send him your question, he is asking for input :)


    https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-ima-st_mig&ei=UTF-8&hsimp=yhs-st_mig&hspart=ima&p=ideal+boiler+you+tube&type=q3000_A1BWP_set_bcrq#id=1&vid=29c42a7271487611041200a672f3df14&action=click
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Bobby_masticator
    Bobby_masticator Member Posts: 7
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    hot_rod said:

    Its down a bit lower I think there is a monoblock inside. It has a pump that either does heating or a plate heat exchanger. I doubt that changing the pump is an option. A pressure bypass valve could be installed if the pump is too large for the heating loops.

    Plenty of UK contractors on You Tube talking about that boiler, it is a big brand in the UK. Should be able to find a nearby, knowledgable service person?

    Other than the "deer in the headlights" look about him, this chap seems knowledgable. Maybe send him your question, he is asking for input :)


    https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-ima-st_mig&ei=UTF-8&hsimp=yhs-st_mig&hspart=ima&p=ideal+boiler+you+tube&type=q3000_A1BWP_set_bcrq#id=1&vid=29c42a7271487611041200a672f3df14&action=click

    Thanks. His channel is great. I sent him a question. I have an auto bypass, which is by the cylinder but maybe that is too small or too far away? I wonder could I just install an arrester on the cold water by the boiler? See pic, or maybe one by the valve with the cylinder (upstairs) where the bang is heard? Another idea was to install a quiet motorised valve, like a Taco.
  • Bobby_masticator
    Bobby_masticator Member Posts: 7
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    I am going to install a large water arrester at the red spot, where the banging seems to be loudest. Hopefully it helps.