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Air gurgling in radiant heat system

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Comments

  • moemah123
    moemah123 Member Posts: 55

    The arrow is pointing towards the pressure guage. Let me know what that means. I appreciate it

  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,425
    edited March 2023

    It means that the pump is pushing water toward the press gauge. The pump is adding head energy to the sys and that is confirmed by the increase of pressure as registered on the pressure gauge. When the sys is not operating the static pressure on the gauge is what? and when the pump is operating the pressure increase is what?

    It's sad to see a sys like this. There is so many mistakes that one is left to believe that the installer is incompentant and lacks the basic knowledge of hydronics. Hydronic Pros are a little more expensive, but in the end, it is money well spent. Issaquah?

    The Japanese make an art out of pouring tea. A well piped hydronic sys has symmetry, artful beauty, pleasing to the eye.

    moemah123
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,018

    I he mentioned pressure drops when the circ runs, but it looks to be pumping way

    from 10 psi to 0-5 psi. 

    The picture with 10 psi was taken today. This was the system being on stand by.

    I Have seen and taken pictures of this pattern everyday for past 5 days. When system calls for heat it goes as low as 0 and when it goes to standby it goes back to 10

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    moemah123
  • moemah123
    moemah123 Member Posts: 55

    Yes you are correct. When system is on standby pressure increases to 10 and when it is heating it goes to 0-5.

    I may have missed it in your reply but what does this mean? Does this confirm a leak? And why does it go back up.

  • moemah123
    moemah123 Member Posts: 55

    I agree the system seems wrong, my company says so but I am trying to gather more info before I decide what to do. Yes I am in issaquah. Having hard time finding pros in my area that don't charge 10x price parts for market.

    To answer your question. What I don't understand is why pressure is 10psi when pump is not active and when system is active (calling for heat) it drops to 0. I am

  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,425
    edited March 2023

    It appears in the photo that the arrow on the volute is pointing toward the pressure gauge as stated. Even the Ex-tank is mounted on the input to the pump. So, why is there a pressure drop when one is pumping into the gauge? It doesn't make any sense to me. That Ex-tank should have an air charge of 12-15 psi with out water in it. Might want to check that.

    No, no leak. If there was a leak it wouldn't recover and would stay low, going lower unless there is a heater cold water feed. Might want to shut that feed off and monitor what happens.

    moemah123
  • moemah123
    moemah123 Member Posts: 55

    I stand corrected. I tried it again. I looked at guage when I stopped system from calling for heat (lowering temperature and hearing pump shut off) it dropped to 0 then back to 5psi. When I asked my friend to raise temperature upstairs to 70. The guage jumped back to 10 immediately.

    I guess I am now back to my main confusion.

    Why did system drop from 40 psi to 10psi in a week but is now holding around 10 psi past few days?

    I know you mentioned no leak as system didn't drop to 0? But what else could it be that causes huge loss in psi? And what gets air into my system

  • moemah123
    moemah123 Member Posts: 55
    edited March 2023

    @hot-rod Apologies for confusion. This is what I saw. But when I repeated test today with another person help I am seeing the opposite. Once I shut off pump it fell to 0 then back to 5 psi and when I opened it went exactly to 10. I am not sure what that means relative to leaks and why system lost 30 psi in a week but now stabilizing maybe at 10psi. And if there is no leak how else does air get into my system.

  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,425
    edited March 2023

    5 psi static pressure is too low, if you have a cold water feed (pressure regulating valve) increase the static pressure to 12-15 psi. It also means that the Ex-tank air pressure must be the same pressure as the fill valve pressure. You have a small Ex-tank so you have very little tank acceptance of heated water, so the air cushion pressure must match the fill valve pressure or else the tank's air cushion will be depressed and the heated water acceptance will be less. This could cause a discharge out the Pressure Relief Valve (PRV). I was looking for a PRV in your photos, but I couldn't see one. You should have two PRVs unless you are heating with domestic water, (not). One on the domestic water supply side of the heater and one on the house radiant heating side.

  • moemah123
    moemah123 Member Posts: 55
    edited March 2023

    I have to admit I don't fully understand all of this hence my need for good technician if you can guide me on how to find one in Washington area specially.

    I will answer your questions as best as I can. I don't believe I have a water feed or anything I can press that would increase pressure in system. Full system pictures is at start of post so let me know if it's there.

    As for how pressure along with tank is set, this is the weird part for me. I am hearing from you and hot rod ranges like 12 -15psi. But when company came to "fix" system. They flushed it and said that water expected pressure is 40 psi and that's why you see green markers on guage. They told me anything lower than 20psi and system is leaking and is in danger. As far as I know they didn't have a way to separately do tank pressure vs other pressures. So that's why I am confused here what is the highest and lowest number my guage should show to prove there is no leak and running well? Any idea?

    I want to add one more thought. The expansion tank on domestic water side (upside down) I was told was not working but they didn't tell me it was urgent to replace if that matters in any way. Just adding this info if it helps

    This system is combi as in heating and domestic water is separate as far as I know. But the whole boiler has 1 pressure relief valve. And I recall asking technician and they said I only have this one. Picture attached.

    I appreciate your and hot rod help so far.

  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,425
    edited March 2023

    It appears to me that you are heating with domestic hot water? This is not the way that the sys should be set up. Unless there is a heat exchanger in the tank for the space heating and what I see is that there isn't one. There needs to be one to separate space heating from domestic hot water heating. So, you would only have one Temperature/Pressure relief valve on the tank.

    Pay attention to the heat exchanger, which is external to the heater. You don't appear to have one. You have a blended sys. This creates a lot of problems. This is similar to the Radiantec/Polaris setup. This NEGATES much of what I have written so far. Your sys has to be redesigned, I think. If this is a sys without a heat exchanger then only one EX-tank is needed which is on the water heater. Pressure in the heating sys would be the pressure of the domestic cold water supply to the Bradford/White which is usually at 50 psi and then the Ex-tank air charge would be 50 psi. Look to the installation diagram and follow that, which means a heat exchanger and all the necessary products for a separated sys.

  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,425
    edited March 2023

    "They told me anything lower than 20psi and system is leaking and is in danger. " This is nonsense. In a blended sys, you will always have street pressure into the Bradford/White unless the cold water shutoff valve is closed. You may have a leak, but you wouldn't know it because street pressure (incoming water) would hide it.

    Your pressure variations, I believe, are a product of an ill designed sys. I don't know how relevent the pressure variations are. If the sys works as is, great. What's the worry?

  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,425

    "…I was told was not working but they didn't tell me it was urgent to replace if that…" What they were alluding to was that there might not be a spring loaded check valve on the cold water supply between the cold water shutoff valve and the Ex-tank, which is the only reason that one would want an Ex-tank on the water heater.

  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,425
    edited March 2023

    Another point, in the Radiantec/Polaris setup all the domestic water to the water heater goes thru the infloor pex to the tank. Your sys that isn't the case. Why this is important is that, in the summer when there isn't any need for space heating the water lays stagnant in the pex and could at that temp create legionnaire's disease, which is why you need an external heat exchanger.

    You're never going to get the air out of a blended sys.

  • moemah123
    moemah123 Member Posts: 55

    I am attaching pictures of what's on top of tank. Let me know if this look like heat exchange.

    All I know is that water i am using for domestic is separate from radiant system according to technicians but they both are in same tank. They do need to purge system every year and water mostly looks rusted color so possibly you are right it just sits there but I don't know enough.

    I am not sure based on what you said above now what is the ideal pressure guage should say?

    You also say that we can't get rid of air from system. Is this true even with air purger?

  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,425
    edited March 2023

    That's a combustion vent blower on top of the tank. Yes, even with an air purger. The sys is constantly pulling air from the incoming water to the B/W tank. You would be surprised at how much air is entrained in water.

    By the way how do they purge the system, the procedure?

    Rusty water indicates oxygen in the water that is attacking cast iron, most likely the pump volute, especially so in the summer when the water is stagnant. It appears to me that there isn't an internal heat exchanger in the Bradford/White tank. If the pressure gauge shows 40 psi, I can almost assure you that there isn't an internal heat exchange.

    An external heat exchanger.

    Everything in this diagram indicates that there is supposed to be an external heat exchanger.

  • moemah123
    moemah123 Member Posts: 55
    edited March 2023

    Thank you. So what are next steps I can take? I am reading that replacing rusted manifold won't fix my air issue it may stop a leak if there is any correct? And that it doesn't seem worth it at this point right?

    Also since my system is low at 10 psi what do you think is causing it to drop this low? And when I work with technicians what should ideal pressure guage say? 40 psi? Or 30? Or other?

    Finally at this point can I do anything to keep system running with this setup? The boiler probably has couple of years on it and when it's time to replace maybe I can redesign the whole setup (ideally for me replace it with forced air as I don't like radiant system) any thoughts on how to find good technicians able to take this project as I am worried hydronic system designs are subjective and I would be at losing end (no heat and out of money)

    Thank you

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,018

    pretty sure it is a CombiCor, Homer. The serial number, the burner output, and the capacity, are telltales.

    They also shipped with thermostatic mix valves.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,888

    So you can't show us a rusted hydronic tank caused solely by non-barrier pex tubing? Why make a claim that you know is bogus? Dropping the pressure to 12 in a bladder/tank designed for 30+ will cause the diaphragm to bind, as it is physically larger than the diaphragm in a hydronic tank designed for 12 psi and will now have overlap- but you already knew that.

    GGross
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,425
    edited March 2023

    Everything in this B/W heater diagram indicates an interior HX. Low space heating pressures indicate an internal HX. High space heating pressures indicate a need for an exterior HX.

    If so, this is the way it should be piped, which means that your piping is wrong. Just add a backflow preventer before the pressure reducing valve. I think Washington state requires a high contamination backflow preventer. Whether a sys has 3 pumps, 1 pump + zone valves or just one pump is not material. You have one pump pumping into all the loops .The pump could be placed after the air separator and Ex-tank and I would move the PRV between the tank heating outlet and the gauge. And the purge valves between the gauge and the air separator. This would solve all your problems except a leak in the pex.

    Everything depend upon if you have an internal HX. High (street) pressure in the tank and low pressure in the space heating circuit indicates a internal HX. This is the determining factor in how everything is configured. Your tech guys indicate a separated system, one sys space heating and one domestic H/W.

    I came across several diagrams for the B/W model presented and provided both. Choose the one that is apropriate and follow the diagram as to piping and the placement of components with my fore going exceptions.

    I would add two purge valves and a Webstone ball valve with drain, all the same valve. I listed 3/4" because the Ex-tank has a 3/4" connection. It make air charging the tank easy, https://www.supplyhouse.com/Webstone-50613-3-4-Sweat-PRO-PAL-Full-Port-Ball-Valve-w-Drain?_br_psugg_q=webstone+isolation+valves

    The purge valves are directional as to how you want the flow to go and have to be mounted properly.

  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,425
    edited March 2023

    Groundup, Whaaat??? I have never heard that before. You learn something new every day, which is why I like this site. In fact, I'm learning so much everyday, I'm beginning to think I don't know anything.

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,018

    What exactly does the diaphram bind on inside these tanks? It's a slab of rubber that moves up and down.

    Do you have evidence the O2 ingress doesn't shorthen a steel tanks life? Probably not.

    Odd that Amtrol builds a lined hydronic tank, O2 barrier, ExtrolPro.

    Or is it a just ThermTrol with a 1/2" nipple :)

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,888

    @hot_rod you're welcome to share irrelevant "information" all you want, but you and I both know it's not always pertinent to the real world. I have seen you note that a 300ft loop of 1/2" will never exceed maybe .75GPM, even though the pressure drop charts and pump curves we reference every day clearly show a flow approaching double that with a basic 007/15-58 variety circ. *Case in point.* Amtrol and other manufacturers build what they think will sell. Period. When there's an improper air charge in any expansion tank, what happens? The bladder sticks to the steel in the tank or binds on the weld and the bladder will tear. Anybody in the field has seen it a hundred times. I myself have seen torn bladders in exactly the scenario you suggest is perfect, several times now and one of which only a few weeks back- had I known this would end up being a topic of discussion, I'd have documented it to share my findings with the powers that be and better rid the world of poor information. I have also seen many an otherwise closed system, aside from the non-barrier pex, 20+ years old with a hydronic expansion tank and plenty of other ferrous components that still look great inside. Notice I never said or even suggested that o2 ingress doesn't shorten a steel tank's life? I said that dropping the pressure in a potable tank will shorten the tank's lifespan a whole lot more than non-barrier pex will shorten a hydronic tank's lifespan. Big difference. Yes, this is a technicality, but I will not sit idly by and watch a role model for a good portion of this trade publicly share information that I know is false.

  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,888
    edited March 2023

    This Extrol #15 was originally installed in 1998 in a 3 loop radiant floor system using non-barrier Durapex along with a NG 40 gallon powervent water heater. The gas valve crapped out for the 3rd time and I was there to replace everything but the tubing. The water heater was still leak free, and here is the internals of the tank. The tear you see in the bladder was actually from me being impatient while opening it up (notice the air side is dry)- the tank was still good at the time of removal and was holding 12 psi on both sides. Is this "evidence" enough for you, Bob?

  • yellowdog
    yellowdog Member Posts: 155

    the pvc glued to abs just caught my attention. and vented out with abs pipe? isnt all abs pipe foam core?

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,018

    I'm fine letting the viewers decide what is relevent in my post. Or yours.

    I agree the manufacturers offer what they think will sell, but also what the industry needs or requests. Hense the lined tank version for open and non-barrier systems.

    Bladders tend to fail when over-streched as in under sized expansion tanks, or improperly air charge to static fill.

    Anyone needing more info on selecting and installing, as well as expansion theory in general, this is an excellent read.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    GGross
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,888

    Those viewers are looking to guys like you, pioneers of the trade, for factual information- not a theory. Most are trying to learn the proper way to install these systems and don't have the luxury of field experience. When you propose your theory as a false fact, those individuls have no way of knowing it's false or what's relevant, and therefore the trade will continue to be half-asked based on poor information from those who are supposed to be helping. I've shared my proof of non-barrier tubing not being the problem that you say it is, where is your proof to the contrary? It's okay to accept ideas that you didn't come up with on your own, you know.

  • moemah123
    moemah123 Member Posts: 55

    There is a good amount of information here for me to read so i appreciate everyones contribution. Thank you.

    I have to admit my ignorance to most of what is being said here and hoping if we have a consensus on what the issue is or what i should be asking my technician to do.

    To recap: My heating system annually has air bubbles. But this year it happened more frequently. Technician diagnosed it to multiple things and proposed different routes of work.

    1. He proposed that because manifold was wet, it needed to be replaced and could be a big reason why i am losing pressure and thus air i can hear gurgling. However, as we have seen pressure dropped from 40 to 10 psi (happened in a week) but has remained another week at 10 psi. Does someone have an explaination to that? and does it seem like replacing the manifold could help?
    2. He proposed that once we fix manifold, i should not see that much pressure drops. But he also wanted to install axiom minifeeder so that it increases the pressure when it drops. Does this sound like a good idea?
    3. He proposed couple years down the line remodelling whole system and having pump be vertical instead of horizotal, different tank etc. What do you think?

    I apologize again, as i read over past posts the need for air separator etc, i am hoping with the recap above someone can help give me questions and answers that i can take to my technican. Taking into account my complete lack of experience. I am stressed worrying that i may replace one broken system with another.

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,018

    Just got off the phone with the tank people, I stand by my comments, pics and quotes from their trainers.

    I did learn that they dimple the diaphrams to prevent them from sticking when tanks are over filled, but it is mostly a well tank issue.

    The only limitation on using a ThermTrol DHW expansion tank on hydronics, once the pressure is adjusted, would be the 200° temperature limitation compared to 240° on hydronic tanks.

    This is due to the poly liner used on the domestic tanks, which is not unlike the the RadiantPro hydronic tank which has a 200° rating because of the poly liner protecting the steel vessel. The basic differance beetween the RadiantPro and Thermtrol is nipple size, as I suspected from the literature.

    I actually have a small well tank, WellTrol as an expansion tank on my hydronic system. The difference from hydronic tanks it has NSF rating.

    Your one tank that is not leaking really proves nothing IMO. Low temperature operation minimizes O2 ingress. I've like many otherd have had tanks fail in under 1 year on high temperature non barrier rubber tube systems, much higher O2 ingress at 180°F.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    GGross
  • GGross
    GGross Member Posts: 1,022

    @moemah123

    lots in this thread so sorry if I don't have the entire situation correct

    1: Plumber sees the wet manifold, seems a good indicator of a leak. The leak needs to be fixed

    40-10 psi drop: this was a good sign of a leak, it is possible that wherever you are leaking can hold 10 psi, or debris/scaling/"mud" is slowing the pressure drop to where you are not going to see any noticeable drop in a week or two.

    Why was the system set to 40PSI?

    2: Water feeders are a good idea in general to keep your system topped up with good quality heating fluid, I see nothing wrong with this, but would advise checking it because you do not want a leak to go undetected

    3: Definitely remodel that whole system. but There is absolutely nothing wrong with using that DHW expansion tank in this application, assuming that the pressure in it is set correctly to your system. I would use that until it fails, as discussed in this thread generally the DHW tanks are more resistant to corrosion, one of the primary failures of steel expansion tanks is air that gets inside from the heating system causing pinhole leaks. Your tank will protect against that as best as possible

  • moemah123
    moemah123 Member Posts: 55
    edited March 2023

    @GGross

    I dont know why 40 PSI, when i asked technician he mentioned thats the water pressure from the city.

    Company wants to charge me 1k for parts for manifold which online seems at most 200, is there a site or way to find technicans who can install if i provide parts? or should i just accept cost of business. If installing manifold doesnt fix the issue i am worried they will drag me down rabbit hole so i want to make sure i am paying for the actual issue.

    @hot_rod @GroundUp is air separator still a valid option to bring up with technician?

    Do you also agree in redesign pump needs to be vertical not horizontal?

    I hope if you can provide guidance how\where i can find good technicans to help me diagnose further what to do, in washington area? So I can get opinions on how to redesign and fix existing

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,018

    Yes you need an air separator, I'd insist on a microbubble type, not a cast iron scoop.

    I cant help with pricing, depends on what is included. From my experience that is an easy 1 day job. Hourly wage for a day plus parts. I'd ask for pics of the work they have done. Most hydronic folk that are proud of their work have plenty of pics.

    In Washington state? Did you message @Paul Pollets he is in the Seattle area. He may have a refferal.

    I know the Caleffi rep in the area, maybe he has some reputable hydronic repair people in mind.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    GGross
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,888

    We're not talking about high temp OR rubber tube here, are we? Again, it's okay to be wrong sometimes Bob. This is how we learn. You can choose to accept and learn from this, or you can continue to give out poor information. I think everybody would prefer the prior.

  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,888

    @moemah123 yes, you should have an air eliminator installed. No, there is no reason to change the location or orientation of the circ. If there is no leak, there is no reason to have any sort of feeder attached to the system but it can add peace of mind if you need that. That manifold is literally $20 at any big box store and would take a competent technician less than an hour to install. To completely revamp this with a new air eliminator, manifold replacement, auto feeder, tank pressure adjustment or tank replacement, purge, and recommissioning is still only a half day's work. Some techs will refuse to install owner supplied parts, so it may be best to try to find one that will before you actually buy the parts.

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,018

    Why always a chip on the shoulder @GroundUp

    I come to the discussion with actual data, factory input and confirmation. You come with mere hearsay.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    GroundUp
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,888

    No chip, Bob. I'm just a stupid pipefitter, but I come with facts and real-world data. You come with words from the manufacturer, whose only objective is to sell product. How many times have we (yourself included) seen and proved a manufacturer wrong? Their input is not viable evidence under any circumstances- facts will trump the MFG 100% of the time. BTW, you have provided no actual data thus far- perhaps you forgot to post something that you meant to post?

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,018

    Lets start with a softball, explain this statement of yours?

    I said that dropping the pressure in a potable tank will shorten the tank's lifespan a whole lot more than non-barrier pex will shorten a hydronic tank's lifespan

    The only difference between these tanks is the stainless nipple and the plastic liner on the potable tank. Dimensions are the same, the same shells, same sized diaphram is installed in the same location. The potable tank has the extra protection of the plastic liner, same as the RadiantPro tank for non barrier tunbe systems, in the tank, so potable water can be inside a plain steel tank.

    If your statment is correct, lowering pressure in a hydronic tank would also shorten its life?

    Regardless of the air pressure charge in any tank, 5 psi or 50psi, the diaphram is pushed against the nipple until the system pressure increases above the air charge pressure. Heating the fluid, thermal expansion caused pressure increase allows fluid to enter a tank.

    And no 12 psi on the water side will not allow water to enter a tank charged at the exact same 12 psi air side as you claimed but never explained? The diaphram is against the nipple, still.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 2,276
    edited March 2023

    Just a reminder that this forum runs on mutual respect.

    @GroundUp I get it that you do not agree with @hot_rod, but your sarcasm (saying things like "It's okay to accept ideas that you didn't come up with on your own, you know.") is rude and distracts from advising the OP. You can state your point and the record of the thread will show it for all to see, but adding jabs like that is not helpful. We don't always have to agree, but we do have to be respectful. I've seen chaos in many FB groups because people are nasty to one another and I refuse to let that happen here. Let's rise above it. Thanks.

    President
    HeatingHelp.com
    Peter_26GroundUpSTEAM DOCTOR
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,425
    edited March 2023

    Back to the beginning. gasp. "… for manifold they blamed lost pressure and air on it. Is there a reason
    to hold off? Also anything I can do like caulk, or tape etc to make
    sure water doesn't leak?"

    Yes, clean the joint on the manifold and sand the joint with emery cloth. nice and clean and roughed up. with the heating sys off put JB-Weld on the leaking joint and keep the heating sys off for 24 hrs. You can do that first before replacing the manifold. I very much doubt that you are pulling air into the sys thru that leak. Not possible.

    moemah123, commenting more is beating a dead horse. Every possible question you have has been addressed. BUT…to condense your concerns…

    1. Gurgling in a sys can be caused by more than air. Your Techs have told you that you have a space heating sys and a domestic hot water sys which would have to be separated one from the other with a heat exchanger. No heat exchanger, then, one sys not two. If two sys you need two pressure relief valves, one on the tank (T&P) and one on the space heating sys (30 psi). If two sys you need a method of filling water in the space heating sys. If two sys you need an air eliminator to remove as much entrained air from the space heating fill water as possible. Purging, so the pump can flow water thru the piping sys, removes air pockets while filling the sys with entrained air.

    2. Pressure variations. A fall in static pressure in a closed sys indicates a leak of water out of the sys. The speed of the pressure decline indicates the volume of flow lost. The fall in pressure would eventually go to zero and stay at zero until more water is added to the sys.

    Pumping into a pressure gauge will increase the gauge reading over static pressure reading.

    I give up I can't get this comment box to work like the old comment box.

This discussion has been closed.