Cold Start Can we save energy this way

exqheat

The boiler you suggest, has no glycol. Yonkers, NY does not heat its driveways. These buildings were built before the three car family. Folks in this neighborhood stay warm on the Bus. There are no setbacks. This ( see Pics Above) building is at one set temperature 24-7 as folks work all shifts.

Derheatmeister

On the other side of the river ! You had me fooled...I thought it was Weehaken or Jersey City..
Sea level ! How old is this boiler ?
Copper Baseboards or Original cast iron Rads ?

captainco

Okay, I am not experienced on snow melt systems therefore I cannot assume a fix without testing the initial problem. I will agree there are exceptions to most rules but then there has to be an alternative repair. I am sure that derheatmeister did not install the system you mentioned.

If there is question, or a call for help and I have direct experience with that problem, I want to help. Combustion issues are my 40+ years of experience, most fuels and most types of equipment. What I learned is industry standards and manufacturers recommendations are more CYA than actual good mechanical practices.

exqheat

On the other side of the river ! You had me fooled...I thought it was Weehaken or Jersey City..
Sea level ! How old is this boiler ?
Copper Baseboards or Original cast iron Rads ?

Don't know age. call wm baseboard copper. Tin covers

hot_rod

captainco said:

derheatmeister - Being certified I assume the boilers you are talking about had their drafthoods removed or blocked and barometrics added. Then the mechanical room was pressurized or combustion air was controlled in one direction? Then the gas pressure was adjusted until the actual input of the boilers were as they were listed. Input btus is not cubic feet of gas. Natural gas is 90% sensible heat so non condensing equipment needs an additional 10% cubic feet. Because we don't have perfect combustion the actual amount of btus available is another 10% below that.

Backing up, you said the piping was screwed up, so is that the return water temperatures fault? What return temperatures do pool heaters see? What temperature do water heaters see?

NCI Certification teaches that flue condensation is caused by venting, combustion air problems, underfiring or other mechanical defects, not return water temperature. That is because for over 40 years that has been verified in the field.

Have I seen what you are talking about? Yes!! But not after we fix it.

captainco said:

derheatmeister - Being certified I assume the boilers you are talking about had their drafthoods removed or blocked and barometrics added. Then the mechanical room was pressurized or combustion air was controlled in one direction? Then the gas pressure was adjusted until the actual input of the boilers were as they were listed. Input btus is not cubic feet of gas. Natural gas is 90% sensible heat so non condensing equipment needs an additional 10% cubic feet. Because we don't have perfect combustion the actual amount of btus available is another 10% below that.

Backing up, you said the piping was screwed up, so is that the return water temperatures fault? What return temperatures do pool heaters see? What temperature do water heaters see?

NCI Certification teaches that flue condensation is caused by venting, combustion air problems, underfiring or other mechanical defects, not return water temperature. That is because for over 40 years that has been verified in the field.

Have I seen what you are talking about? Yes!! But not after we fix it.

Copper fin pool boilers have a thermostatic cartridge built into the header between the supply and return outlets, that’s how they handle the constant return below 85 degrees.

I don’t see how you can tune away the burner, draft room air to prevent the long cold slugs that cause the condensation that @Heatmeister_2 see on a regular basis in those snowmelts and low temperature radiants. Most all the 1990 vintage systems were cast iron or copper fin tube boilers before mod cons started hitting the market.

Derheatmeister

exqheat said:

On the other side of the river ! You had me fooled...I thought it was Weehaken or Jersey City..
Sea level ! How old is this boiler ?
Copper Baseboards or Original cast iron Rads ?

Don't know age. call wm baseboard copper. Tin covers

Too bad that this house does not have Large cast iron Rads..
If the boiler is nearing the 30 year mark it may be time for an upgrade..
Modcon boilers can reduce your AFU drastically..Even with CU baseboards, Installing larger heating surfaces will reduce your AFU even more and keep your boiler happier.
If you add a reverse indirect waterheater to this equation you may be producing DHW at around 90% eff.

exqheat

This is a low income rental building. They just had to do roof work. Fortunately the new control is saving 25%. As an income property the landlord is not planning the renovation you suggest.