Reality Check - Replacing Bushing?

ka4222

Hey everyone,

I wanted to tap into the collective wisdom here before agreeing to an expensive repair. 

I have an original steam radiator that had steam leaking out of the handle of the supply valve. I found a company that specializes in steam heat to come out and they replaced the supply valve completely to fix. Steam starting leaking out between the new union/supply valve and the radiator itself so they came back and reconnected, tightening it further. The tech said if that failed, the next step would be to cut out the bushing to replace. 

Just a few hours later, it started leaking once again so I know I’m looking at an expensive repair to replace the bushing. Does that sound like the best course of action? Just making sure I’m getting the best advice from the company (especially as a newish homeowner who is usually assumed to know nothing about steam heat!)

Long Beach Ed

When you replace a steam valve you must replace the "bushing" or spud that's attached to the radiator with which it joins. They are a matched pair - machined and supplied to fit together. Sometimes a new valve's taper will match an old spud, but usually not. Your plumber only did half the job.

To avoid the hassle, I usually repack the packing or simply tighten the packing nut on the valve stem when one leaks. Older valves are usually of superior quality to new ones and can usually be tightened in a few seconds stopping the leak.

At this point, the remaining part of the valve must be replaced if possible.

Chris_L

I think we need to clarify terminology here.

On most steam radiators (mine anyway) there is a cast iron bushing into which the brass radiator spud threads. (The spud is the threaded piece shown in this photo: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bluefin-RVST075-3-4-FIP-x-Male-Union-Steam-Angle-Radiator-Valve )
What @Long Beach Ed is saying is that that spud should have been replaced with the valve.
Unless it was damaged when the old spud was removed, the iron bushing in the radiator should not need to be replaced.

Where exactly is the leak? At the union itself? Or between the spud and the bushing?

mattmia2

Was there something wrong with the old valve that prevented them from just replacing/tightening/adding to the packing?

They should have tested it when they did it, not sure why you're finding it leaking later. Is it leaking at the spud to the valve or the spud to the bushing or somewhere else? Either way they absolutely should have replaced the spud and unless something very unusual happened they should not need to replace the bushing.

EdTheHeaterMan

Long Beach Ed

Sounds like the existing radiator spud doesn't match the new valve's union. The Master Plumber just changed the valve and threw out the spud that came with it.

ka4222

Long Beach Ed said:

Sounds like the existing radiator spud doesn't match the new valve's union. The Master Plumber just changed the valve and threw out the spud that came with it.

To your earlier comment, it’s right where the bushing and the spud meet. It’s only steam leaking out, not water, but is a good amount. 

As I’m reading these responses, I think this is right. This is a new problem just since he put in the new valve and it does seem like it’s not a fit. 

The tech said the bushing looks like it’s “starting to fail” given its rusting, etc.. but maybe it seems like he messed up and trying to blame the bushing?

Moving forward, what is the proper fix?

ka4222

mattmia2 said:

Was there something wrong with the old valve that prevented them from just replacing/tightening/adding to the packing? They should have tested it when they did it, not sure why you're finding it leaking later. Is it leaking at the spud to the valve or the spud to the bushing or somewhere else? Either way they absolutely should have replaced the spud and unless something very unusual happened they should not need to replace the bushing.

You know, I had the same question of if it could be repacked but the tech said it should just replaced. He was also the second heating company I had in who said the same thing - so I assumed it was the correct fix. Especially since this company specializes in steam heat and that’s all they do. 

Kicking myself for not following my gut and pushing back…

ka4222

EdTheHeaterMan said:

This is very helpful - thanks. That seems to be what the tech thinks - but I’m suspicious now based on the other comments since this has only been an issue since he replaced the supply valve. 

If it is due to an issue with it being a new spud that doesn’t line up, would you still recommend lamp wick and Teflon tape with a thick pipe joint? He mentioned he would have to “surgically” cut out the old bushing and replace it which makes me nervous. Your fix sounds preferable if it would work in this situation…

EBEBRATT-Ed

What no one knows is if the bushing is damaged.....or not. Most bushings are cast Iron some smaller ones are steel and then there is brass which is seldom used due to cost.

Sounds like the tech needs to take the spud out of the bushing and use a pipe tap or wire brush to clean the threads then reinstall the spud with Teflon tape and pipe dope.

It's possible he did not tighten the spud enough or dope it properly

or

He may have overtightened the spud and cracked the bushing (unlikely)

or

the threads in the bushing may be worn out also unlikely

mattmia2

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

What no one knows is if the bushing is damaged.....or not. Most bushings are cast Iron some smaller ones are steel and then there is brass which is seldom used due to cost.

Sounds like the tech needs to take the spud out of the bushing and use a pipe tap or wire brush to clean the threads then reinstall the spud with Teflon tape and pipe dope.

It's possible he did not tighten the spud enough or dope it properly

or

He may have overtightened the spud and cracked the bushing (unlikely)

or

the threads in the bushing may be worn out also unlikely

Or they cut the threads because they went too deep cutting the old spud out. Should in most cases still be able to get it to seal.

ka4222

Here are some pictures of the bushing. Th steam is leaking right out of the top where the spud and bushing meet. He said the bushing was failing but besides some missing paint, I’m not sure if that’s true. 

mattmia2

It looks like there is only old style dope in there. Modern dope and some ball wicking likely will seal it up. It kinda seems they should have figured that out before they claimed to be done.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Wal-rich-1906004-Spool-Wick

Long Beach Ed

You could consider it a call-back that should have been part of the original job. The plumber may not and charge you again for the job. Looks like it can be rectified quite easily.

Chris_L

Long Beach Ed said:

You could consider it a call-back that should have been part of the original job. The plumber may not and charge you again for the job. Looks like it can be rectified quite easily.

Yes, it doesn't look like the tech who did the work really understands steam that well. I would call the owner of the company and tell him the tech had two chances to get it right, and couldn't. Ask him to send someone who really knows steam.

As others have said, assuming the spud in the picture is the one that came with the new valve, they should be able to thread it into the radiator bushing so it doesn't leak anywhere. (And if they don't know how to replace a valve, I wouldn't let them try to take that bushing out, which won't be easy.)

JUGHNE

Take a rag to the neck of that spud, clean like doing a shoe shine.
It should be bright brass, brighter than the new valve.

To me it looks like the old spud.

Can you post a picture of the spud and point a pencil where it is leaking in the picture?

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

When threads are damaged or suspect, I use Hernon Dripstop 923 or Superdope. Both are anaerobic and will seal when others don't.

https://argco.com/piping-chemicals/super-dope-anaerobic-thread-sealant.html

Those wrench flats on the valve and spud are there for a reason. Don't use rough-jawed channel locks or pipe wrenches when a crescent wrench is indicated. It tells people that you're in a hurry, don't care about your work or you haven't been trained properly.

Full disclosure: I have been guilty of the above and have hung my head in shame.

EBEBRATT-Ed

looks like he used the old spud. Valve looks new spud looks old and wrench marks and different color