Figuring out this steam (Paul) system mess in NYC.

JohnNY

I love my consulting work and it's very rewarding when things start to come together. This is a Paul system altered by many unqualified hands over the years. Restoration is my approach in most cases but that may not be possible here. This one's going to be challenging fun.

neilc

maybe if you sit quietly in the last rows the dead men will talk to you

EBEBRATT-Ed

Challenge doesn't seem enough to do it justice

Danny Scully

So you tease, tell us more! 🤣

DanHolohan

John is on a first-name basis with the Dead Men. 

Steamhead

@JohnNY , I'm sure you are up to the challenge.

You'll need some way of pulling a vacuum on the air lines. Maybe @Pumpguy could help out here.

From the looks of those three pipes, it looks like the radiators are piped as two-pipe air-vent with the Paul system handling just the air venting.

Hoffman #3 air vents for Paul systems appear to still be available.

JohnNY

Steamhead said:

@JohnNY , I'm sure you are up to the challenge. You'll need some way of pulling a vacuum on the air lines. Maybe @Pumpguy could help out here. From the looks of those three pipes, it looks like the radiators are piped as two-pipe air-vent with the Paul system handling just the air venting. Hoffman #3 air vents for Paul systems appear to still be available.

Someone put traps and Hoffman 75 air vents all over the building, including on some drip lines. There is clear evidence of a condensate return pump having been installed and then removed but much of the piping remains. The Paul vents were all removed, no one knows when, and air vents were put in their place. All radiators have traps now. The current set of hands on the system, the guy who called me, removed the air vents on the radiators (seeing they have traps and having read that traps and vents do not mix) and they went cold immediately. They’re running mini splits to heat those cold areas now. I’m thinking to vent the heck out of it at boiler level and add TRVs or orifice plates at each radiator. But I looked at it for an hour, and not ready to commit to anything. I seem to have trouble with commitment in other areas of my life too. Just ask the highly patient Melissa. 

Danny Scully

So the Paul vent lines are all abandoned @JohnNY ?

JohnNY

All but one line, @Danny Scully, yes.  (Did my buddy Dominic call you?)

Danny Scully

Not sure @JohnNY, I’ll inquire with our CSR. What was it about? 

Pumpguy

Some years back I was called to look at a large home in a suburb just north of Milwaukee with a one pipe Paul airline system. Considerable renovations had been done for the new owners including installing a new boiler and boiler feed pump and tank.

The installing contractor removed the vacuum pump but fortunately the Paul valves on the radiators were still there as were the air lines.

When this new arrangement wouldn't heat, a second contractor was called in who realized it was a Paul system that now didn't have a vacuum pump.

No one could tell me anything about the original vacuum pump.

Using a small liquid ring vacuum pump with re-circulated seal water from the boiler feed tank, we were able to restore this Paul system back to its original design. Even though we used a rebuilt vacuum pump, this was maybe 5-8 years ago, I haven't had any feedback from the using customer or the contractor, so I have to assume all is working as it should be.