Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

Flow Control Valves In My Setup Proper? Take a look at my setup - Leaking and Replace

HandyFS
HandyFS Member Posts: 57
Take a look at my boiler piping setup and share some feedback on my flow control valves.

One of them is leaking slow but steady so I may need to replace, so I wanted to get some feedback. I had a plumber recently tell me that he would remove them and put something else in place, but he didn't tell me exactly what. Unsure if he just meant switch brand to Taco, or if there is some other type of valve that is better here? In this system, do these Bell and Gossett flow controls make sense and should I replace with the same flow control valve, or should I replace or reconfigure with something else?

The system was shut down for 1-2 years so I'm assuming it dried up and now is not sealing well internally anymore now that it is back in service and under pressure. Or they were leaking prior and are back doing the same thing. Anything I should try to tighten, or take apart and clean up to see if it resolves the leak? Can the repack the valve, or or is it better to just replace it completely? They may be questionable condition and one is so tight I can hardly turn/adjust the top valve. I will probably end up just changing both of them while I'm dealing with them.

This is the flow control valve:
Bell & Gossett Flow Control Valves
1" Straight-Angle Flow Control
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Bell-Gossett-107018-1-Straight-Angle-Flow-Control

Would this universal Taco Flo-Check valve do the same job? These are readily available locally but I'm open to keeping the Bell & Gossett since its fit in nicely and the Taco would require more reworking.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-220-6-1-Universal-CI-Taco-Flo-Chek

Here is a photo of the piping and flow controls for review.



Thanks

Comments

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 7,202
    I think those are rebuildable. You may also be able to put a flow check in those circulators although the external ones have the handle to open them manually for maintenance on the system, you can't do that with the integral one that goes in the circulator.
    Intplm.
  • HandyFS
    HandyFS Member Posts: 57
    edited November 2022
    mattmia2 said:

    I think those are rebuildable. You may also be able to put a flow check in those circulators although the external ones have the handle to open them manually for maintenance on the system, you can't do that with the integral one that goes in the circulator.

    Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to look around and see if I find talk of rebuilding or try finding the documentation on these valves. Unsure how much damage their is from water dripping/rust over time so I'll weight that in.

    In a scenario using the Taco pump with an integrated flow valve, would these existing Bell & Gossett ones then simply be removed and the pipe patched to eliminate them completely? Any other downside to doing this or is it ideal? I see the Taco 007-F5-7IFC seems to be the one that has this built in. I like the idea of less in the system and removing the existing Bell & Gossett flo control valves seems like more work than removing a circulator pump, so that idea is interesting to me.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 7,202
    You would just remove the separate flow checks. Your current circulators may have the pocket already machined in to them that the integral flow check presses in to, you may be able to just buy the part and add it.

    The only downside to the integral flow check is that if the way the system is piped requires you force reverse flow to purge the system or something like that, you can't manually open the integral check in the circulator.
    HandyFS
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 18,254
    They do add quite a bit of pressure drop also. If you don’t want to repipe at all, rebuild them with parts or guts from a new one.

    Spring type hydronic checks are best, 6” or more from the discharge ideally.

    You have a good start with the backflow vent🤓 complete the discharge tube to the floor. They do spit from time to time.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    HandyFS
  • HandyFS
    HandyFS Member Posts: 57
    edited November 2022
    mattmia2 said:

    You would just remove the separate flow checks. Your current circulators may have the pocket already machined in to them that the integral flow check presses in to, you may be able to just buy the part and add it.

    The only downside to the integral flow check is that if the way the system is piped requires you force reverse flow to purge the system or something like that, you can't manually open the integral check in the circulator.

    Good info, helps me understand it well. I just confirmed that the Taco 007-F5 can in fact accept the integral flow check separately. It looks like a $20 part, which is reasonable.

    Do you, or anyone see any reason why I should not eliminate the existing flow check based on the photos of my system, and just put this flow check cartridge into my circulator pump?

    The system has run with about 1/2 the cast iron radiators ok so it may not require reverse flow purging and eliminating may be ok. This is promising info.
  • HandyFS
    HandyFS Member Posts: 57
    hot_rod said:

    They do add quite a bit of pressure drop also. If you don’t want to repipe at all, rebuild them with parts or guts from a new one.

    Spring type hydronic checks are best, 6” or more from the discharge ideally.

    You have a good start with the backflow vent🤓 complete the discharge tube to the floor. They do spit from time to time.

    That may work as well depending how the body of the existing flow check setups work. If they are machined the same maybe I could put most of the guts inside and get them working sound again. I also like the idea of eliminating and using those Taco circular pump ones, but I get your point on a spring setup being possibly better/more durable.

    Thanks for the reminder on the discharge tube. I have it all cut and ready to go. I had it installed but I haven't gotten around to sweating it in place yet since I want to get all these other things figured out first, but its on the list to get it done. :)
    hot_rod
  • Peter_26
    Peter_26 Member Posts: 127
    Just an observation, but I would look into the flue pipe corrosion. Looks like there's a lot of condensation going on. Looks very corroded at the joints and especially at the thimble.

    It's always recommended to have carbon monoxide detectors on every floor of the house.

    Stay safe!
    hot_rodEdTheHeaterManHandyFS
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,989
    It is quite possible that the only leak is the packing nut. perhaps the packing shrunk a little when the system was idle for a time. If it were mine, I would get a wire brush and some red paint. clean up all the rust and corrosion. Remove the packing nut and add some packing material. Replace and tighten the packing nut. Spray on the red paint. then look for the corrosion to stop or if it continues. Here is a picture of where the packing nut and packing is.

    Hope this saves time and money for you.

    Mr. Ed
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
    HandyFSmattmia2
  • HandyFS
    HandyFS Member Posts: 57
    edited November 2022
    Peter_26 said:

    Just an observation, but I would look into the flue pipe corrosion. Looks like there's a lot of condensation going on. Looks very corroded at the joints and especially at the thimble.

    It's always recommended to have carbon monoxide detectors on every floor of the house.

    Stay safe!

    Any general ideas why so much condensation occurs? The machine was dirty when I opened it up and the chimney was pretty dirty and had lots of general build up. That is all cleared out now. This is an old boiler that wasn't maintained the best. No signs of breaks or leaks inside or outside of the boiler itself.

    It is quite possible that the only leak is the packing nut. perhaps the packing shrunk a little when the system was idle for a time. If it were mine, I would get a wire brush and some red paint. clean up all the rust and corrosion. Remove the packing nut and add some packing material. Replace and tighten the packing nut. Spray on the red paint. then look for the corrosion to stop or if it continues. Here is a picture of where the packing nut and packing is.

    Hope this saves time and money for you.

    Mr. Ed

    Thanks Mr. Ed. Any idea if packing in a valve like this needs to be custom to the exact valve, or is it common stuff you can pick up at the hardware store? I've never rebuilt a valve before. I will certainly consider taking the top off, giving it a clean up, and retightening at the minimum to see if that helps stop the leaks. I called a local distributor and they said they do not sell a rebuild kit and suggested replacing the entire thing. Unsure that's accurate.

    EDIT:
    I found the actual packing rebuild kit for Bell and Gossett, it costs more than it does to get an entire new assembly. So if I decide to keep them, I will simply buy a new unit and then either swap out the packing to the existing housing, or, replace the entire thing. Any idea what type of packing material I can use in the method you are suggesting? I see SupplyHouse carries 2 different size packings, unsure if this is the stuff you are suggesting?
    https://www.supplyhouse.com/Brasscraft-SF1336-B-Graphite-Twist-Stem-Packing-Grey


    If a quick tightening doesn't work, I'm still trying to decide if I eliminate these and add the extra flow control to the Taco circulator pumps, or just replace the separate control valves.

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 18,254
    If you go new, adding the check into the pump outlet is a no brainer., and you get a flow increase.

    You can get 3/4" sweat iso valves with checks also. Start with a new flange/ valve and go up to the existing copper to eliminate all the steel pipe.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • HandyFS
    HandyFS Member Posts: 57
    edited November 2022
    hot_rod said:

    If you go new, adding the check into the pump outlet is a no brainer., and you get a flow increase.

    You can get 3/4" sweat iso valves with checks also. Start with a new flange/ valve and go up to the existing copper to eliminate all the steel pipe.

    Thanks Bob, didn't think of that since I don't do this stuff regularly. So the isolator valve connects directly to the circulator pump as the flange, correct? That sure would make things even easier and transition me directly to copper in a flash. This seems to make a lot of sense, especially since the system does not have a shut off on the supply line at any point.

    Is there a need to be able to drain from the supply side or is it more common to have on the return side only?

    This is also nice adding a shut off on both sides of the pump if I decide to put the flow valve inside of the Taco 007-F5 pump, and then install my own drain after the flange if I want the ability to drain on the supply side: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-SFL-100T-1-Threaded-Shut-Off-Freedom-Swivel-Flange-Set

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 18,254
    There used to be a sweat version of this iso/ check flange. Probably too many melted checks got returned.

    This gives you a rotating flange, shutoff valve and the check inside.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    HandyFS
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 7,202
    edited November 2022
    You can use string packing from the hardware store or mcmaster carr, doesn't need to be the custom b&g packing washer.
    HandyFS