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~30 yrs old zone valve

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I live in a condo and my zone valve has never worked. I guess the previous owner didn't even try to use/fix it. They probably did open-close manually.

I tried to change the motor (it's a Synchron motor) but it wasn't motor which didn't work. Somehow the valve is stuck open and I can't manually close it. Tried to lift the whole motor part but can't remove 'round metal pillars' which attach the motor part (upper half) to the valve body. I don't wanna cut the pipe.

But even if I could remove the motor part, I don't even know what this model is. Probably discontinued.

Anybody knows what this zone valve model is? Maybe it's been there since the building was built in 1970's.
(I'm not a plumber but just interested in plumbing DIY.)






Comments

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,382
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    Looks like an inverted flare type connection. I know Caleffi still offers inverted flare, but you would want to match the length unless the copper tube has some ability to move. Is it mounted in the baseboard?

    However you want to go with a new valve, I think you are looking at a total replacement. Press type valves go in quick and easy, especially if you cannot get all the water out.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    STEVEusaPALayNovice
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
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    With those screw locations, it looks like a Honeywell, like a V8043E. You can still buy the operators. 

    The original valves had a wet mounting. You had to turn off and drain to install a new operator and they sell a wet-to-dry kit. 

    With all that fuss, just install a new valve. 
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    LayNovice
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,843
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    An inverted flare like an sae flare? Why? It doesn't need to withstand thousands of psi...
    LayNovice
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
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    What @hot_rod said...and you would already be done.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    LayNovice
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,382
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    Inverted flare zone valves were fairly common years ago. Seems like a regional thing, upper Midwest has tons of them, Wisconsin and Minnesota, and we still stock wholesalers with them.

    The intention was a serviceable valve. I think. Air handler manufacturers like them also.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    mattmia2LayNoviceSTEVEusaPA
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,764
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    Something new, Never saw an inverted flare valve around here
    LayNoviceSuperTech
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
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    It has a lot to do with Midwestern hospitality; consideration for the tradespeople that will come after us when we’re all dead. 

    I’ve never met a Midwesterner I didn’t like. 
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    LayNovice
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,843
    edited November 2022
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    That is a giant sae double flare like they use on brake and fuel and other steel automotive lines but that doesn't need to withstand the pressure and vibration of an automotive application, a regular flare would be fine in that application.
    LayNovice
  • LayNovice
    LayNovice Member Posts: 2
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    Thank you all for comments! Sounds like I need to install a new valve, which might be easier than I think. I'll call a plumber. Looks like this is not for DIY my level.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,382
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    mattmia2 said:

    That is a giant sae double flare like they use on brake and fuel and other steel automotive lines but that doesn't need to withstand the pressure and vibration of an automotive application, a regular flare would be fine in that application.

    It's not a double flare, called inverted as the nut is a male thread, I guess.

    3/4 SAE 45° single flare with a 7/8 UNC nut. Caleffi, Honeywell, Eire and others still offer inverted flare valves, compatible with one another.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    LayNovice
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,843
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    I can't see in your picture all that well to see if you can see there the outside edge is folded in to the surface, but with the edge being thicker it looks like it is a double flare. SAE flare uses that type of nut that screws in to a recess to put a lot more force on the connection than a standard flare and it doubles over the material.(although i'm not quite sure which specs are part of what, I just know that that type of flare is used in automotive work and it is doubled over then flared to make a stronger connection).
    LayNovice
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,382
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    mattmia2 said:

    I can't see in your picture all that well to see if you can see there the outside edge is folded in to the surface, but with the edge being thicker it looks like it is a double flare. SAE flare uses that type of nut that screws in to a recess to put a lot more force on the connection than a standard flare and it doubles over the material.(although i'm not quite sure which specs are part of what, I just know that that type of flare is used in automotive work and it is doubled over then flared to make a stronger connection).

    I learned of double flare in auto shop in high school, years on the steel brake lines, probably still the case.

    I may have hit off topic accidentally, sorry.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    LayNovice