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JohnRambo76
JohnRambo76 Member Posts: 17
Hello all, i’d like if you professional installers or steam boiler techs could give some pointers on my install. I do supermarket refrigeration and commercial hvac professionally. What I don’t do professionally is steam boilers. I replaced my 35 year old millivolt Utica with a new Utica peg112. What I changed with the old piping was raise the first horizontal header to 24” which was sitting at 18” originally, I nearly broke my back freeing up that 2”to 3” elbow on the main header. I had to redo the gas line because the old boilers controls were in the front, also had to run electrical. I don’t have an auto water feeder, I’m always in my workshop and can easily monitor water levels. The unit runs excellent I would say, I’ve skimmed it multiple times and ran unit right after fresh water was put in. The water in sight glass doesn’t surge and only moves a half inch typically. Any pointers appreciated, not my direct field of profession but always willing to take on a challenge. Thanks all 

Comments

  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,054
    I wouldn't have made that quick horizontal left below the header. I'd have come up over the header and dropped down into it to maintain parallel flow of steam and condensate.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting
    Plumbing in NYC or in NJ.
    Take his class.
  • JohnRambo76
    JohnRambo76 Member Posts: 17
    JohnNY, what issues might I see having it that way? That’s how it was originally piped I just raised it to 24”…is it no good piped that way or just not how you’d do it? 
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,896
    Awful lot of climbing and turns for condensate to try and get out.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 7,191
    The line voltage wiring cant be supported by the gas pipe, drop down a piece of emt supported at both ends or something like that.
    JohnRambo76
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,354
    With the same fittings and a touch more pipe you could have come out the left side of the boiler, straight up, over, and down into the header, which would have been a dropped header. That first pipe isn't a header, only the upper pipe is.

    Remember it's not just about steam flow, it's about condensate flow, especially in the near boiler piping.

    What you did isn't a problem exactly, but there is a better way. See attached picture of your piping compared to the manual. I added colored lines so you can see how the pipes relate from a functional standpoint.


    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    JohnRambo76
  • JohnRambo76
    JohnRambo76 Member Posts: 17
    KCjones, I’m wondering if that’s the reason I can see water coming down from the top of the sight glass…the first horizontal is pitched slightly back towards the boiler.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,896
    mattmia2 said:

    The line voltage wiring cant be supported by the gas pipe, drop down a piece of emt supported at both ends or something like that.

    I ran MC from the floor joist right to the boiler, no support.
    Electrical inspector had absolutely no issues with it.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • JohnRambo76
    JohnRambo76 Member Posts: 17
    ChrisJ said:
    The line voltage wiring cant be supported by the gas pipe, drop down a piece of emt supported at both ends or something like that.
    I ran MC from the floor joist right to the boiler, no support. Electrical inspector had absolutely no issues with it.
    I can see the gas line being an issue, I’ll just make a piece of emt at work.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 13,142
    I think your job looks pretty good all in all. I would use EMT from the floor joist down and sleeve the MC in it or put a box on the floor joist and make a splice.

    An alternative would be a piece of strut with the mc cable ty rapped to it.

    I don't like unsupported flex unless it can't be supported or for flexibility. Those are minor issues.

    I would have made the riser out of the boiler either higher or the same height as the existing header.

    You will get some condensate coming back into the boiler supply.....it will be minor and mostly on a cold start. When the riser is hot it will be minimal.

    If it runs ok leave it alone it will do no harm.

    Not all jobs have to be textbook to work
  • reggi
    reggi Member Posts: 320
    The HWH flue pipe looks like it's not quite pitched the correct way. ... Providing the bricks are level 🎚️
    One way to get familiar something you know nothing about is to ask a really smart person a really stupid question
  • JohnRambo76
    JohnRambo76 Member Posts: 17
    I think your job looks pretty good all in all. I would use EMT from the floor joist down and sleeve the MC in it or put a box on the floor joist and make a splice. An alternative would be a piece of strut with the mc cable ty rapped to it. I don't like unsupported flex unless it can't be supported or for flexibility. Those are minor issues. I would have made the riser out of the boiler either higher or the same height as the existing header. You will get some condensate coming back into the boiler supply.....it will be minor and mostly on a cold start. When the riser is hot it will be minimal. If it runs ok leave it alone it will do no harm. Not all jobs have to be textbook to work
    You’re spot on about the condensate. I watched the entire cycle after filling up with fresh water following a skim…I’ll get some water returning from the top of the sight glass and about mid way through the cycle it stops and is dry above water line from then on out considering the water is clean(still need to skim, on my 5th skim). I plan on changing the piping and just going out the left side straight up, over and to a drop header as mentioned by both you and KC_jones. Do I need to make it a drop header as in the riser going above the main header and dropping down or can the riser go to a 90 and straight into that 3”to 2” elbow on the main? I likely should change the equalizing line too because it’s an 1 1/4” but I’m not seeing anything concerning to me. When the boiler shuts off satisfied on temp the water in sight glass drops slightly to the level of the hartford loop which is at 24” and my water level is 26” but I keep the water level probably at 25”. I hear no hammering and the water only bounces 1/2” when water is fresh.
  • JohnRambo76
    JohnRambo76 Member Posts: 17
    reggi said:
    The HWH flue pipe looks like it's not quite pitched the correct way. ... Providing the bricks are level 🎚️
    It can be finessed for sure
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,087
    the condensate washing back down the sightglass is a violent boil,
    and a call for Skimming, more skimming
    known to beat dead horses