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Beckett AF oil burner - factory settings

MikeAmann
MikeAmann Member Posts: 683

Last night I serviced Mom's burner on her hot water heater. I scrubbed it clean like nearly new, gave it a new nozzle, pump screen and pump coupling, adjusted electrodes, etc. But I am sure that the bozos that serviced it over the years (NOT) probably don't have the settings anywhere near correct. I have the paperwork for the water heater itself, but no detailed info on the burner. It fired right up and sounds different than it did before (quieter). I plan to do the combustion analysis tonight, but I would like a good starting point for the burner settings. I put all the settings where they were, which are:
  • Air band nearly closed
  • Air shutter fully open (10)
  • .65x60A Delevan nozzle
  • I didn't check pump pressure yet
This burner is atached to a TFI E30GL hot water heater.

I didn't pull the burner out of the WH - I did the cleaning in place, so I don't know the condition of the head or the placement of the nozzle in relation to it.

Can someone recommend good starting point settings please. And thanks.

Comments

  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,983
    edited October 2022


    You should confirm the z dimension and the condition of the end cone/air tube, or nothing else could matter. Original nozzle is .65 X 70 AS.

    Seems like it wants a 70° nozzle.
    After confirming end cone and z dimension, I'd fire it up. If it sounds good I'd adjust the draft. Then I'd start a smoke test, closing shutter until I got smoke, then opening up to true zero smoke. If you close the shutter all the way and can't get smoke I'd close the band 1 setting and move the shutter to 5 and repeat. Or if you open the shutter all the way and can't get to true zero smoke, I'd open the band 1 setting, close the shutter to 5, and repeat.

    Where is all that crud coming from in the housing?
    Draft is pretty important otherwise your stack will go well over 700° and efficiency will drop...a lot.
    steve
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,874
    I don't see that water heater listed in the Beckett OEM guide.
    However, it's rare for a  Beckett AF to fire a 60° angle nozzle with an F head. Can you see the stamping on the head? F0, F3?
    The Therma-Flow site shows a .65 70 A for your model but doesn't say if thats with the Beckett or Carlin package burner.
    They do have a "Contact us" link at the bottom of their page. Maybe they can hook you up.
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 683
    edited October 2022
    @STEVEusaPA , @HVACNUT Thanks, I wil pull the burner tonight to check the head and Z setting. My paperwork says it came with a Beckett burner.

    I can't get a new nozzle until Monday. .65x60 SS is what I removed. What is an AS nozzle?
    I bought a new .65x70A for the Beckett, but I put that nozzle into the Carlin CRD 100 burner on the boiler so that I could use the .65x60A nozzle that I put in there just last week for the water heater.

    SS air tube - YES.
    Depth 6.25" - will check tonight.
    All that crud is 30 years of service people NOT doing any cleaning. Just change filter and nozzle and call it good. There was also a wood burning stove in the area, so that didn't help keep the burners clean either.
    The flue tees into the boiler's flue pipe and the WH does not have it's own barometric damper. The boiler does have one. I know that this is not the preferred way, but it has been this way for 50 years and I am not changing it now.
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 5,002
    edited October 2022
    Each year there is a little build up of dust on the combustion fan and the fan housing. That will lead to a little less combustion air flow. That can be fixed by opening the air adjustment a little. Over 20 years, that amount of crud that has built up has most likely been accounted for by opening the air adjustment to 10 over time.

    That is not really a problem with poor maintenance as long as each maintenance visit achieved a zero smoke and acceptable O2 or CO2 reading. Now that you have removed all that crud, the air adjustment will be way off. You will probably want to start at about 8 on the air adjustment and the air band almost closed. If there is no smoke, then close off the air until you get a #1 smoke. From that point take a CO2 or O2 reading. then open the air gate adjustment so your CO2 lower or O2 higher reading changes by 1% That should yield a zero smoke test. That will also allow for one year of normal dust build up on the fan.

    I am not condoning the lack of dust removal over 20 years, I prefer to brush the dust off the fan every year and leave the adjustment untouched. That process usually offers a great combustion efficiency test result without needing any adjustment. But that is how I was taught. The other way works too, but is less professional IMO.
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
    MikeAmannSuperTech
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,769
    MikeAmann said:

    @STEVEusaPA , @HVACNUT Thanks, I wil pull ther burner tonight to check the head and Z setting. My paperwork says it came with a Beckett burner.

    I can't get a new nozzle until Monday. .65x60 SS is what I removed. What is an AS nozzle?

    Danfoss used to have their own nozzle line before buying Hago. AS= American Solid. That's why the Delavan B nozzle is the other choice- use it, unless the flame is so long it slams the back of the firebox. SS is a semi-solid spray, which produces a shorter flame than the B.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    MikeAmannSTEVEusaPASuperTech
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 683
    @Steamhead
    Steamhead said:

    MikeAmann said:

    What is an AS nozzle?

    Danfoss used to have their own nozzle line before buying Hago. AS= American Solid. That's why the Delavan B nozzle is the other choice- use it, unless the flame is so long it slams the back of the firebox. SS is a semi-solid spray, which produces a shorter flame than the B.

    Since it is a hot water heater, there is no viewport. Unless it's behind that big circle right above the burner. I tried to open it and there was inches thick of white insulation that I did not want to disturb, so I put it back. I will rely on the combustion analysis numbers.

    For tonight, I will swap nozzles again to get the Delavan .65x70A out of the Carlin and back in the Beckett.
    I will pull the Beckett burner out and check the head and Z dimension.
    Then I will test draft, adjust for a trace of smoke, and take a CA reading.
    I am sending a message to Beckett now asking about the proper nozzle and setup specs.

  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 683

    @EdTheHeaterMan

    Each year there is a little build up of dust on the combustion fan and the fan housing. That will lead to a little less combustion air flow. That can be fixed by opening the air adjustment a little. Over 20 years, that amount of crud that has built up has most likely been accounted for by opening the air adjustment to 10 over time.

    That is not really a problem with poor maintenance as long as each maintenance visit achieved a zero smoke and acceptable O2 or CO2 reading. Now that you have removed all that crud, the air adjustment will be way off. You will probably want to start at about 8 on the air adjustment and the air band almost closed. If there is no smoke, then close off the air until you get a #1 smoke. From that point take a CO2 or O2 reading. then open the air gate adjustment so your CO2 lower or O2 higher reading changes by 1% That should yield a zero smoke test. That will also allow for one year of normal dust build up on the fan.

    I am not condoning the lack of dust removal over 20 years, I prefer to brush the dust off the fan every year and leave the adjustment untouched. That process usually offers a great combustion efficiency test result without needing any adjustment. But that is how I was taught. The other way works too, but is less professional IMO.

    I agree. In my case the basement is unfinished, so a quick blast once in a while from an air compressor would go a long way to keeping the fan area clean. The other thing is that the motor and fan is easily removed with 2 bolts. A quick wipe with a rag and some solvent would be super easy. But I guess that goes above and beyond for some service techs - at least the ones that we have had over the years.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,983
    HVACNUT said:

    I don't see that water heater listed in the Beckett OEM guide…

    Sure it is. Look at my first post.

    steve
    HVACNUT
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 683
    edited October 2022
    @STEVEusaPA
    I looked again. According to your Beckett chart, this combo uses the F3 head and a SOLID .65x70* nozzle with a 3-3/8" static disk.
    But the most recent data from the Therma-Flow site shows a .65x70A nozzle in a CARLIN burner.
    I managed to find a 2008 spec sheet showing the E30GL rear flue with the very same Beckett AF burner I have: https://store.jomardist.com/productdetailI2.aspx?dataid=E30GL and it shows .75x70*. It's still anyones guess as to Solid, Semi-solid, or Hollow.


    What nozzle do I put in there? I plan to up the pump pressure to 120# for better atomization.
    I do have 80 degree nozzles. Would that be a better starting point until I get the correct one?
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,983
    edited October 2022
    I would do what I said in my first post. It will need a draft regulator, and the right nozzle.
    Carlin is Carlin, Beckett is Beckett. Same for Riello and Wayne. They test their own burner in equipment and draw different conclusions.
    I wouldn’t jack up pump pressure, not too many options to match flow rate and it may change the spray pattern and impinge.


    steve
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 5,002
    edited October 2022
    MikeAmann said:


    I agree. In my case the basement is unfinished, so a quick blast once in a while from an air compressor would go a long way to keeping the fan area clean. The other thing is that the motor and fan is easily removed with 2 bolts. A quick wipe with a rag and some solvent would be super easy. But I guess that goes above and beyond for some service techs - at least the ones that we have had over the years.

    That is why I carry a 30# can of R-22 on my service truck in the 1980s. Great for blowing off fans and blowing out plugged fuel lines.

    Oh yea, ...and the occasional air conditioner repair too.


    ...then they had to do that whole EPA thing!

    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
    MikeAmann
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,983
    And yes, behind that cover is how you carefully can inspect the flame and get over fire draft. But you really have to be careful, especially if you don’t want a 'kiss from the dragon'.
    steve
    MikeAmann
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,769
    MikeAmann said:

    @STEVEusaPA
    I looked again. According to your Beckett chart, this combo uses the F3 head and a SOLID .65x70* nozzle with a 3-3/8" static disk.

    That static disk size is critical. The usual 2-3/4" disk will elongate the flame too much- the larger one is there to prevent that. If you look through the OEM spec guide at units you're familiar with, often the ones with shallow fireboxes and solid nozzles specified will use the larger disk.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 683

    And yes, behind that cover is how you carefully can inspect the flame and get over fire draft. But you really have to be careful, especially if you don’t want a 'kiss from the dragon'.

    Tomorrow I will probably be writing about how I don't have any eyebrows. :D
    EdTheHeaterMan
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 683
    edited October 2022
    Steamhead said:

    MikeAmann said:

    @STEVEusaPA
    I looked again. According to your Beckett chart, this combo uses the F3 head and a SOLID .65x70* nozzle with a 3-3/8" static disk.

    That static disk size is critical. The usual 2-3/4" disk will elongate the flame too much- the larger one is there to prevent that. If you look through the OEM spec guide at units you're familiar with, often the ones with shallow fireboxes and solid nozzles specified will use the larger disk.
    Yes, the **** is indeed 3-3/8".

    EDIT: OOPS, typed a c instead of an s in disk.
    EdTheHeaterMan
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 683
    edited October 2022
    I swapped nozzles back between the Carlin and Beckett burners.
    The sticker on the side of the burner says AF. But on the front it says AH 571021.

    I chose a .65x70A nozzle. If the stack temp is too low, I can increase the FR. I also have .75 and .85 hollow nozzles to try.
    The F3 head is in excellent shape.
    Z dimension was off by 1/8" shallow. I used the idiot-proof orange setup tool.
    The combustion chamber was snow white with no debris and in amazing shape. The tank was installed in 2013, 9 years ago to today's date.
    3-3/8" static disk.
    Pump pressure measured 93 psi. I set it to 100.

    Draft measured -0.03 in the flue pipe and it works the barometric damper on the boiler, whether the boiler is running or not. And if I manually close or open the damper, the reading changes on the draft gauge.

    Smoke test - air band nearly closed, air shutter started at 10 = ZERO
    Set to 5 = ZERO. Set to 2 = brass tube came out black. Set to 4 = got about a 5 on scale. Set to 5 = ZERO to a trace. Super SENSITIVE that adjustment. Locked it there, WH temp was now fully HOT. I have to wait for it to cool to do the CA.














    Here are some pics of the cleaned Carlin burner on the boiler. It was even nastier than the Beckett.






    So again, we already know the nozzle should be a .65x70*. Should I be buying a B or SS or W?


  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 5,002
    @MikeAmann, You own the R8182D combination Triple Aquastat Protectorelay. Lucky You! Have you looked up the price for that control?

    In the future you might want to look at replacing that control (when it fails) with a Carlin 70200 primary control and a L7224U aquastat. The cost of both with a 4" square metal box is actually less than purchasing that control. It will offer you better control and diagnostics that your existing control does not offer.

    Ask me about it if you have questions.
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
    MikeAmannSuperTech
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 5,002
    So again, we already know the nozzle should be a .65x70*. Should I be buying a B or SS or W?

    It appears that the original spec is for a Danfoss AS. that is equal to a Delavan B, Hago B, Monarch R, or a Steinen S, But I always liked the Delavan nozzles. So try the B first then the W if you think it might do better.

    One thing that I have found is the the Spray Pattern is not as important on many boilers. The static pressure of the air thru the combustion head really takes the droplets and puts them where they need to burn. Some patterns do work better than others on some equipment but on most equipment you can get away with a lot of substitution with very little problem.
    Edward Young Retired HVAC Contractor & HYDRONICIAN Services first oil burner at age 16 P/T trainer for EH-CC.org
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,769
    edited October 2022

    @MikeAmann, You own the R8182D combination Triple Aquastat Protectorelay. Lucky You! Have you looked up the price for that control?

    In the future you might want to look at replacing that control (when it fails) with a Carlin 70200 primary control and a L7224U aquastat. The cost of both with a 4" square metal box is actually less than purchasing that control. It will offer you better control and diagnostics that your existing control does not offer.

    Ask me about it if you have questions.

    Or try Beckett's AquaSmart/Genisys retrofit, which I used on my boiler:

    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/176551/nice-job-beckett

    https://www.beckettcorp.com/product/control-combo/
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 683
    edited October 2022
    @EdTheHeaterMan , @Steamhead
    You own the R8182D combination Triple Aquastat Protectorelay.

    Actually this now on Mom's boiler. It was previously on mine, but I upgraded to the Hydrostat 3250+ and Carlin Pro-X 70200S primary control after I added the IWH. It greatly simplified the wiring.

    But Mom has dementia and that is now kicking into high gear. The house should get sold in the not-too-distant future, so I am just trying to make what is currently there run the best that it can.
    The new owners can rip all of this out (because its OLD) and start over with whatever they wish.

    I will pick up B and W nozzles tomorrow.
    Tonight I will do the combustion analysis on the WH with the hollow nozzle.

    The boiler is waiting on new stainless steel baffles. Those results will be interesting.
    EdTheHeaterMan
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 683
    edited October 2022

    I would do what I said in my first post. It will need a draft regulator, and the right nozzle.

    Combustion analysis results for Beckett AF burner - .65x70A nozzle, air shutter=5, ZERO smoke
    no 1% safety margin added, 5-10 min run time





    I am going to try to wedge the baro damper (on the boiler) open a little to lessen the draft and test again.






    Only a slight difference. But I guess I do have just enough room to give the WH its own baro damper if absolutely necessary.



    I see too much extra air, which translates to lower than ideal CO2 and higher than ideal O2.
    Do I call it good and add in the 1%, or make a change? Will a SOLID nozzle make a difference?

    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    I guess I got my answer. I opened the baro damper all the way and had just enough time to get this reading before the WH turned off at the HOT limit, so I couldn't get a draft reading.





    Time for its own baro damper. I'm getting pretty good at this. :*
    EdTheHeaterMan
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,874
    The numbers are ok. If you're selling the house, (sorry about your mom BTW) why not just leave it as is?
    It's not a hazzard in any way.
    A potential buyer might just want to upgrade everything anyway. 
    MikeAmann
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 683
    edited October 2022
    @HVACNUT
    I have come this far with it. I don't quit at 95%. I'm only a baro draft control and solid nozzle away from making this right. It's going to run probably better than it ever did. And yes, I know that tee should be a wye, but I am not redoing all the flue pipes. I want to be able to tell a potential buyer that while this equipment may be old, that it's reliable and efficient (for what it is) and will provide years of great service until they choose to upgrade in the future. In other words, not a problem right now.
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 683
    I hate sheet metal work. Not that I can't do it, I'm just too fussy.
    That's why I prefer to use a tee. Here is my first strap-on install.
    The level says the face is plumb. And the pins are level also.





    Here is a quick draft check before I swap to the solid nozzle.
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 683
    With the baro damper weight set at MIN, the plate does not open while the burner is running.

    Delavan solid nozzle installed .65x70B


    AIr shutter still at 5 setting


    Added air to raise the O2 by 1% for safety margin. Air shutter now set at 6-1/3


    I couldn't recheck smoke at this setting because it took less than 10 min for the burner to stop at the HOT limit.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,983
    I usually leave a hot faucet running while I clean/tune up burner, and leave it on until combustion test is completed.
    steve