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EDR per section for a 6-column 26" "Rococo" rad (photo)?

SteamFTW
SteamFTW Member Posts: 26
I know @Steamhead is the source for the 1897 catalog that's in the HH Museum. Maybe his collection includes info on this one too. As you can see from the photo, this is the plainest looking Rococo ever. If I hadn't seen the name around the bottom tapping, I'd not have guessed it was a Rococo. The 1897 catalog only goes up to 4 column units. Subsequent catalogs in the Museum don't have 6-column rads that are as chunky as this. Unless I'm blind--which is possible.

Many thanks!


Comments

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,516
    That's a Rococo, but not the usual Rococo. It's a "Rococo Window Radiator", whose ratings can be found on page 57 of @DanHolohan 's book "E.D.R.".
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    SteamFTW
  • bburd
    bburd Member Posts: 388
    That enclosure probably reduces its output by 30% or so.

    Bburd
  • SteamFTW
    SteamFTW Member Posts: 26
    @Steamhead Thanks! My replacement "E.D.R." should arrive in a couple days. My original is in another timezone, along with my Pocket Rocket. I should probably replace that as well. Too bad they don't come with HeatingHelp.com on them anymore.
  • SteamFTW
    SteamFTW Member Posts: 26
    <facepalm> Sorry! Turns out I do have a copy of the 1910 catalog, but “E.D.R.” is sooooo convenient.
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,516
    bburd said:

    That enclosure probably reduces its output by 30% or so.

    This! Get rid of that cabinet and it will work much better.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    SteamFTW
  • SteamFTW
    SteamFTW Member Posts: 26
    Absolutely! His first concern is replacing his flood-damaged (hot water heat) boiler. As a friend, I was there when the first company came out to bid on the job. The tech gave me a blank look when I said "EDR". And when I said "um...radiator assessment?", he asked, "Why, do they leak?" They're not getting the job! So, I offered to calculate EDR of his existing rads and head loss, at least as a reference point.
  • bburd
    bburd Member Posts: 388
    The radiator enclosure could also be redesigned to allow nearly the full output of the radiator. There’s a reference to this in TLAOSH if I remember correctly.

    Bburd
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 5,998
    Is this steam or hot water?
  • SteamFTW
    SteamFTW Member Posts: 26
    @mattmia2 Hot water.

    @Steamhead My "E.D.R." arrived on Friday, and it had slid around in the box during shipping, such that one of the pages was folded over and wrinkled. As I flattened it out and turned it aside, what's the fresh page staring me in the face? Page 57.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 5,998
    If it is hot water you size the boiler by the heat loss of the space to be heated.
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 3,635
    mattmia2 said:

    If it is hot water you size the boiler by the heat loss of the space to be heated.

    When I saw "(hot water heat)" in the above post by @SteamFTW I thought the same thing.

    Why do you need the EDR? And if the room in which the radiator is located is comfortable, why do you need to remove or redesign the cover. It looks nice and if it ain't broke... don't fix it.

    Are you also attempting to get more heat in that room?
    Edward Young
    Retired HVAC Contractor from So. Jersey.
    Services first oil burner at age 16
    P/T trainer for EH-CC.org

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,516
    mattmia2 said:

    If it is hot water you size the boiler by the heat loss of the space to be heated.

    This. There are several programs available for this. We used to recommend the Slant/Fin program but it's no longer on their site.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • SteamFTW
    SteamFTW Member Posts: 26
    @EdTheHeaterMan, @mattmia2, @Steamhead, et al.

    Size the boiler by the heat loss of the space to be heated. Agreed. That was never in question. I apologize for not having noticed when this post diverged from it's original purpose. I hadn't intended it to include anything about heat loss.

    But since it's been brought up.

    I managed to download the iOS app version of the SlantFin software a couple weeks ago, but using it on my phone is a PITA. There's also https://coolcalc.com/ It's free, and you only pay if you want ACCA approved reports. Great. But it won't let you choose a date of construction earlier than 1950. And the SlantFin iOS app doesn't appear to give you an option up front for "block load" vs "room-by-room". I don't trust software that requires me to assume something that other similar software requires me to make a choice about. And maybe the desktop version of the software, which is no longer available, did clearly present that decision point. Can anyone with experience with the SlantFin iOS app tell me: am I just supposed to create one big room (like the basic concept of a "block load") in the app? I'll be honest: just thinking about Manual J makes my brain hurt. That is so not my forte.
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 475
    You can find Hydronic Explorer 2 here: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/154667/Slant-Fin-Hydronic-Explorer-2.html#manual

    It's not a program - it's the manual in pdf form.
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,516
    SteamFTW said:

    @EdTheHeaterMan, @mattmia2, @Steamhead, et al.

    Size the boiler by the heat loss of the space to be heated. Agreed. That was never in question. I apologize for not having noticed when this post diverged from it's original purpose. I hadn't intended it to include anything about heat loss.

    But since it's been brought up.

    I managed to download the iOS app version of the SlantFin software a couple weeks ago, but using it on my phone is a PITA. There's also https://coolcalc.com/ It's free, and you only pay if you want ACCA approved reports. Great. But it won't let you choose a date of construction earlier than 1950. And the SlantFin iOS app doesn't appear to give you an option up front for "block load" vs "room-by-room". I don't trust software that requires me to assume something that other similar software requires me to make a choice about. And maybe the desktop version of the software, which is no longer available, did clearly present that decision point. Can anyone with experience with the SlantFin iOS app tell me: am I just supposed to create one big room (like the basic concept of a "block load") in the app? I'll be honest: just thinking about Manual J makes my brain hurt. That is so not my forte.

    I always do it room-by-room. I think the infiltration factor is more accurate that way.

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    SteamFTW
  • SteamFTW
    SteamFTW Member Posts: 26
    @Steamhead I think I'm going to have to do that. It seems they have weatherized _some_ things in the house, but not on all floors and not in all rooms. I'll start a separate post, if I have further questions. Thank you!