Looking for EDR of Detroit radiators.

The Steam Whisperer

We a whole bunch that are 2 column but are 8 1/2 inches deep... almost as deep as standard 3 columns.

Steamhead

Download this PDF and go to page 8:

https://heatinghelp.com/heating-museum/1897-american-radiator-company-catalog/

The Steam Whisperer

Thanks!!! If anyone knew where to find them, it would be you. There's a bunch of these in Quinn Chapel AME Church at 2401 S. Wabash in Chicago. I believe this is the oldest black congregation in Chicago and there's been all sorts of famous speakers at this location. The former Chicago Defender newspaper building is right behind the church.

I was guessing about 4 1/2 EDR per section, the chart shows 4 1/3. Great!

Steamhead

Pictures!

Steam or hot-water?

The Steam Whisperer

Steam, oh course. There's loads of pictures on the net if you just type in Quinn Chapel AME Church. The heating plant is a mess... one of the worst we've seen. We've been gradually getting the system in good working order for the past 7 years. One of the twin boilers is starting to leak, however, its not even needed. The single boiler is still too big for the system. Still pondering how to approach the new heating plant.

The Steam Whisperer

I'd like to potentially use two separate boilers, one for each zone ( sanctuary and lower level), but they share a single common condensate pump. I suppose I could put control valves on each boiler return, but then we would probably need pump controls to run those valves. Or we can seperate the returns and just install another condensate pump. Or a new twin pump feed tank with pump controls on the boilers.... but we are getting into more and more money. A single modulating boiler with zone valves would keep the return simple and so would two atmospheric boilers equalized on the supply and return, but the off atmospheric would probably waste a fair amount of heat into the boiler room, even when equipped with stack dampers. 2 smith HE-5s using both 3 inch taps could work too, and only fire them around 400,000 each. We're only talking about 800,000 btu/hr total input for the one pipe steam system. I plan on disconnecting a number of radiators in the sanctuary to reduce the EDR load since they insulated the huge ceiling area (I estimate about a 40% reduction in heat loss).
Eventually the return piping in the building is going to be redone anyway to make room for museum exhibit space on the lower level.

Steamhead

The Steam Whisperer said:

Steam, oh course. There's loads of pictures on the net if you just type in Quinn Chapel AME Church. The heating plant is a mess... one of the worst we've seen. We've been gradually getting the system in good working order for the past 7 years. One of the twin boilers is starting to leak, however, its not even needed. The single boiler is still too big for the system. Still pondering how to approach the new heating plant.

I Googled them but only found outside pics- can't wait to see yours.

The Steam Whisperer

Hey, here's some inside pics....

https://www.google.com/search?q=Quinn+Chapel+AME+Church+(Chicago)&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS708US708&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjig6OhwNb4AhUCIH0KHWltC4gQ_AUoA3oECAIQBQ&biw=1440&bih=757&dpr=1#imgrc=T-642m7P_g1m9M

Steamhead

What a beautiful church! These old churches are some of my favorite places to work- you get a sense of all the people who have come through them.

Not sure what the piping there is like, but the Mennonite church where we split the steam system a few years ago is quite happy with the result. If QC has similar usage patterns, this might be the way to go.Thread is here:

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/167918/splitting-a-church-steam-system

The Steam Whisperer

Yes, that is what I am recommending. We are going to need to move the pipes in the basement eventually anyway, so I figured I would just separate the returns and install a separate return for the each zone. I expect to use the Peerless 64 series, so the low boiler water lines might allow us to go to gravity return, but then we would need to add some vents out in the future finished space.

Steamhead

Definitely the way to go. Vents take much less maintenance than boiler-feed pumps. That was the very first thing we did at that Mennonite church, and as one might expect it made a huge difference.

Can the 64 series be equipped with both primary and secondary probe-type LWCOs?

The Steam Whisperer

Yes, Peerless did a nice job on the design. It has dedicated tappings for both Primary and Secondary Electronic Low water cut offs. They even have dedicated tappings for a hot water loop...2- 1inch tappings on each end of the boiler above the bottom of the boiler.

I'll need to take a look in more detail to see if we can go all gravity,