Richmond 120 install

Orion_134

It has arrived! Loosely tucked into its home. 

Orion_134

Oh... And this was fun...

mattmia2

those stairs shouldn't be too bad with an appliance dolly with stair climbers.

Orion_134

Stairs weren't bad, but the tight turn at the bottom took some finagling. 

mattmia2

I'm guessing it had to slide sideways upright. Maybe set a mover's dolly at the bottom of the stairs.

Orion_134

So, my thought is to mount the controller and pump assembly on the wall to the left of the tank and the expansion tank below that. Thoughts? 

mattmia2

I thin we need some background about what you are trying to accomplish and some pictures from further back and some boiler pictures. The circulator and the control can be at the boiler with just a cable to the aquastat or temp probe on the indirect. The circulator can be supported by the piping as long as the piping is supported.

Is this replacing what looks to be an indirect just out of frame to the left or is it in addition to? I assume this is an indirect but it could be solar or something too.

Orion_134

Sorry, this is replacing an indirect solar twin-tank setup.

hot_rod

the control could go on the end of the wall where the receptacle in the blue plastic box is. It has a 6' power cord. And your sensor wire from the roof should reach, since it reaches the Goldline. Eye level is suggested so you can monitor and make adjustments.

Gonna try and take the cement lined Ford tank up those stairs? Look underneath and see how they are built The tank, cart and a couple guys will be fairly heavy on those stairs. Put the old tank in a "body bag" if you haul it out. Or you may have a trail of rusty water.

Orion_134

I decided on the downward journey that I will be paying to have the Ford tank removed... 

Larry Weingarten

Hi, Now would be a good time to put a drain pan under your new tank... if there is a way to run that 1" pipe to a drain somewhere.

Yours, Larry

Orion_134

Yeah, the drain pan is on the way. The drain is to the left of the blue tank. 

Orion_134

So I'm getting somewhere. Parts are showing up. However, the Caleffi mixcal mixing valve showed up with this temp gauge. It has been a long time since I took fluid mechanics, but it seems like this is not an ideal flow situation. I'm delayed again since now I have to call Supplyhouse to see if they can send just a sweat/union fitting and I'll put my own bypass thermometer on it. I considered just replacing the thermowell with something different, but it's some o-ring straight thread I'm not familiar with. It appears the whole thing is an EU standard thread pitch and I can't find any US union that fits either.

mattmia2

It depends on what the Cv of the valve is if that is a problem or not.

Orion_134

mattmia2 said:

It depends on what the Cv of the valve is if that is a problem or not.

This one is listed as a Cv of 3.

Orion_134

Once my pan gets here I can finalize the plumbing from pump station to tank. Roughed in electrical and the DHW side should go together quickly. I'm having fun learning this as I go and I appreciate all the tips. I started this project having never sweat copper pipe 😂

hot_rod

yes that gauge well is a BSP. Un-officially you can put a 1/4 NPT plug into it with some Loctite and be fine. I have also put 1/4 rear mount pressure gauges in that tailpiece.

You get the quickest reading when the sensor is in the fluid. Strapping a sensor or gauge outside a copper pipe will give you the same reading once the wall of the tube or tank warms.

Plenty of controls use strap on sensors. Like strap on aquastats

Orion_134

Caption: "motivation..."

Orion_134

So it appears to me that the flowmeter (Grundfos VFS2-40) is incompatible with the iSolar3, unless there is a +5V source that I'm missing? If I were to get an AC/DC converter to step it down to +5V, would the controller be able to read the yellow/white output appropriately? Or do I just need a different flowmeter 😂

hot_rod

That control will not accept the Grundfos sensor input.

I would just get a sight glass flow meter. These Dwyer or Blue-White are often seen on solar. Or a brass turbine type.

The polycarbonate are not rated for high temperature, but I've seen them used on solar for 30 years or more

Orion_134

hot_rod said:

That control will not accept the Grundfos sensor input. I would just get a sight glass flow meter. These Dwyer or Blue-White are often seen on solar. Or a brass turbine type. The polycarbonate are not rated for high temperature, but I've seen them used on solar for 30 years or more

Dangitttt. This is after I've already plumbed that side.
Pulled the glycol from the old system and it is clear with a ~8.1 pH and no real smell. Was just under 5 gal. Found 5gal of Cryotek-100 locally that I'll use in the new system. Found the collector sensor and it was, indeed, a clamp-on sensor. While up there, I noticed that the return (hot) after the collector manifold branches into two pipes going into the house. Why is that? 

hot_rod

Orion_134 said:

hot_rod said:

That control will not accept the Grundfos sensor input. I would just get a sight glass flow meter. These Dwyer or Blue-White are often seen on solar. Or a brass turbine type. The polycarbonate are not rated for high temperature, but I've seen them used on solar for 30 years or more

Dangitttt. This is after I've already plumbed that side.
Pulled the glycol from the old system and it is clear with a ~8.1 pH and no real smell. Was just under 5 gal. Found 5gal of Cryotek-100 locally that I'll use in the new system. Found the collector sensor and it was, indeed, a clamp-on sensor. While up there, I noticed that the return (hot) after the collector manifold branches into two pipes going into the house. Why is that? 

No reason that you absolutely need a flow meter. Did the old system have one?

However, that control has an energy function. You input gpm at full speed and percentage of glycol mix. The control knows the delta T, calculates flow if you use the variable speed function, so basically a BTU meter. I think it reads out as KWh, not btu. OHQM option heat quality meter is the parameter to enable and put info in.

Orion_134

Pressure test! So far holding 20 psi no issue. Used the old glycol to flush and pressure test. Should I be testing it at higher pressure? 

hot_rod

Looks like you are close to lift off! I'd go no more than 30 psi with those older collectors, no need to tempt fate.

To purge you need to turn the large blue handle cross wise. This forces fluid up and prevents it from going down. So fluid goes up, around the collector, down, thru the coils in the tank and up to the purge valve. This assures you get fluid in all the components.

Put the purge hose down into the bucket and purge until no bubbles come out. It can take 15 minutes or more to get all the air out.

After it warms and runs, open the bleeder on that silver air purger for a second or to to release air. You may need to add some pressure after it runs and the glycol deaerates.

Orion_134

Is it possible that the pump is running backwards? I have a collector temp of 171 and tank temp of 66 and the cold side is clearly warmer...

Orion_134

Ok, maybe it was a large air pocket or something. All of a sudden I heard some bubbling and then everything kinda righted itself...

mattmia2

A centrifugal pump can't move fluid in the opposite direction.

hot_rod

Orion_134 said:

Ok, maybe it was a large air pocket or something. All of a sudden I heard some bubbling and then everything kinda righted itself...

the pump sometimes gets an air lock, loosen that large screw in the pump to burp air. Carefully, it could be steam!

Orion_134

She's alive! A couple more odds and ends and I can put away the tools. Picture shot right through where the old two tanks sat.

Orion_134

Welp... Replacing all the insulation in the attic and find that there is some kind of a tank up there with a faucet on the side of it. Maybe that's the fluid sound I'm hearing on the second floor. So, I've purged the system at the pump assembly many times since install and got no more air, but should I also try to purge it at that faucet on the attic? Does the presence of that tank change anything in how my system operates or how I should maintain it? Since it's functioning well should I leave it? I'll be changing the fluid soon and want to make sure my process is correct.

Thanks! 

hot_rod

sounds like a drainback system. Is there a site glass on the tank?
A drainback tank can be located anywhere in the piping where it will not freeze. The higher up in the building the less lift the pump needs to overcome

If it is a glycol system the tank could be removed. If you leave it in, vent the air off the top, it just becomes part of the piping loop.

Orion_134

So I looked all over and it doesn't have a sight glass. It appears to be a steel cube tank with inlet/outlet and faucet at the top, presumably for air. If I purge out the air, I presume I'll need to pump more glycol solution into it to get the pressure back up. Should I just wait until I finish the system and do it then? While the pump is going and purging, I just crack the top faucet until it burps no air? 

hot_rod

If possible remove it. It’s heat loss, will need a few more gallons of glycol, and someday it will leak.
Really no up side on the system as you have it configured now.