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Pig tail question

Fmassarotto_9
Fmassarotto_9 Member Posts: 111
hey everyone, once again i apolgzie for so many questions but if anyone recalls from my previous two posts about the vents hissing and spitting steam and water, well i replaced them with gortons and they do the same thing still. but based on what my friends told me the issue was rectified by torching the pig tail until it is cherry red and dumping it in water, or just boiling it in white vinegar. my question is, i'm looking to try it but is it possible to do it without removing the wires from the pressuretrol? if it was possible to set the pressuretrol on something while i clean it may be a better option for me. but before i go head and unscrew it i want to check to make sure it's ok.
Thanks in advanced, again i apologize for asking reoccurring questions, i'm trying my best to do whatever i can before calling someone back. 

Comments

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,725
    edited January 2022
    I believe you will need to remove the wires before trying to remove the control.

    The only way around this is to rewire a quick disconnect on the wire at the control. I have thought about doing this on a Church that I did service on to speed up my maintenance each year. Those pigtails needed cleaning every other year.

    The pressuretrols were the balanced mercury bulb type and one year I was called back because the secondary manual reset limit (set at 8 PSI) was tripping after the noisiest banging they ever heard. Turns out when I rewired the control one year, the wire restricted the operating limit from tripping at 1.8 PSI. It never fails, when you think you do an excellent (Better than my normal high standard) Job, something stupid makes you look stupid. Live and learn.
    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,042
    I looked at your last post and see your pressure control.

    Shut off the power switch!.......let the boiler cool down until you can lay your hand on the outlet pipe.

    You can simply unhook the two wires. You can take a picture of the wiring first if necessary.
    You will have to take the wires out of the control to unscrew it.

    With the wires unhooked, unscrew the control with an adjustable wrench on the flats on the bottom of it.
    Hold the pigtail from turning with pliers or sticking a hammer handle in the pigtail loop.

    Then attempt to blow into where the control was connected.
    You can get a short length of hose for this if you do not want to kiss the pigtail.
    You should be able to blow thru that into the boiler.
    There may be some resistance at first as the pigtail is full of water.
    You should be able to continuously blow thru this.

    Then unscrew the gauge, take one of the sight glass protective rods out and run it thru the tee that goes into the boiler where the gauge was connected. Assure this passageway is open.

    If you cannot blow thru the pigtail with the gauge off then it is plugged.
    Try a long fat cable tie, or better, a long fat reusable cable tie that has balls on the long end.

    Usually one would unscrew the pigtail from the tee. But your set up is that the p-tail was screwed into the and then the tee screwed into the boiler....before the sight glass and switch was installed. You may not have room to unscrew the pigtail.

    This goes back to the factory wanting to have this assembled and then have a narrow and short box to put the boiler in.....nice of them, but then they get it out the door.

    Obtain the hose to fit over a 1/4" pipe, which is 1/2" inside diameter, the long cable tie, might be 36" long and used to secure flex duct for heating. The reusable long ties with large maybe 1/8 to 3/32" diameter balls....handy for many things such as hoses and cords.

    Before reinstalling the control pour water in the pipe to prime the pigtail....you should hear it run into the boiler.

    Try this and get back to us.
    cross_skier
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,883
    And, if you believe you may need to do this again in the near future?
    Install a union under the control so you only need to undo the union and not take the wires off.
    mattmia2cross_skier
  • Fmassarotto_9
    Fmassarotto_9 Member Posts: 111
    JUGHNE said:
    I looked at your last post and see your pressure control. Shut off the power switch!.......let the boiler cool down until you can lay your hand on the outlet pipe. You can simply unhook the two wires. You can take a picture of the wiring first if necessary. You will have to take the wires out of the control to unscrew it. With the wires unhooked, unscrew the control with an adjustable wrench on the flats on the bottom of it. Hold the pigtail from turning with pliers or sticking a hammer handle in the pigtail loop. Then attempt to blow into where the control was connected. You can get a short length of hose for this if you do not want to kiss the pigtail. You should be able to blow thru that into the boiler. There may be some resistance at first as the pigtail is full of water. You should be able to continuously blow thru this. Then unscrew the gauge, take one of the sight glass protective rods out and run it thru the tee that goes into the boiler where the gauge was connected. Assure this passageway is open. If you cannot blow thru the pigtail with the gauge off then it is plugged. Try a long fat cable tie, or better, a long fat reusable cable tie that has balls on the long end. Usually one would unscrew the pigtail from the tee. But your set up is that the p-tail was screwed into the and then the tee screwed into the boiler....before the sight glass and switch was installed. You may not have room to unscrew the pigtail. This goes back to the factory wanting to have this assembled and then have a narrow and short box to put the boiler in.....nice of them, but then they get it out the door. Obtain the hose to fit over a 1/4" pipe, which is 1/2" inside diameter, the long cable tie, might be 36" long and used to secure flex duct for heating. The reusable long ties with large maybe 1/8 to 3/32" diameter balls....handy for many things such as hoses and cords. Before reinstalling the control pour water in the pipe to prime the pigtail....you should hear it run into the boiler. Try this and get back to us.

    so i did everything you said and reconnected but the vents still his and spit the whole time the boiler is running, but i noticed they hiss after the radiator is already hot which makes no sense to me. but i'm also outta ideas, ive chnage then 3 times in the last week, all different brands, i cleaned the pig tail, adjusted the pressuretrol, pitched the radiators, checked to see if the valves are fully open and they all are so i truthfully don't know, the repairman who has been working on steam boiler fir 50 years doesn't know either. everything checks out fine so i guess this is if

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,575
    edited January 2022
    You could also install a tee between the pigtail and the pressuretrol with a plugged port and just remove that plug to do your cleaning and testing.

    Your issue is probably wet steam caused by something like incorrect near boiler piping, some other pitch or sag problem with the piping, or oil or other issues with the water in the boiler.
    cross_skier
  • Fmassarotto_9
    Fmassarotto_9 Member Posts: 111
    mattmia2 said:
    You could also install a tee between the pigtail and the pressuretrol with a plugged port and just remove that plug to do your cleaning and testing. Your issue is probably wet steam caused by something like incorrect near boiler piping, some other pitch or sag problem with the piping, or oil or other issues with the water in the boiler.

    the stuff you mentioned could cause all the radiators to hiss? like mentioned i've tried gortons, mist o maid and hoffmann and they all hissed, i just went back and changed them all to the original vari valve and they don't hiss anymore. but again they are clogged so that may explain it. by pitch issue do you mean not pitched enough? pitched to much? 

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,575
    Not pitched the right way so the water is getting trapped somewhere instead of draining back to the boiler.

    What do you have for main vents? You have like 3 threads, I didn't notice anyone asking about that. If all the air it trying to get out because of a lack of main vents or main vents that don't open then the velocity at the radiator vents will be higher than normal. I think one of your other posts talks about the water line in the boiler falling too?
  • Fmassarotto_9
    Fmassarotto_9 Member Posts: 111
    mattmia2 said:
    Not pitched the right way so the water is getting trapped somewhere instead of draining back to the boiler. What do you have for main vents? You have like 3 threads, I didn't notice anyone asking about that. If all the air it trying to get out because of a lack of main vents or main vents that don't open then the velocity at the radiator vents will be higher than normal. I think one of your other posts talks about the water line in the boiler falling too?


    is it possible for me to message you 1 on 1 through here? it's a lot of info and i may be able to go into better detail. is that possible?

  • SteamingatMohawk
    SteamingatMohawk Member Posts: 997
    click on the envelope in the bar at the top of the page next to your "symbol" and go from there.
  • SteamingatMohawk
    SteamingatMohawk Member Posts: 997
    Or click on the symbol in his post and go from there.
  • Fmassarotto_9
    Fmassarotto_9 Member Posts: 111
    mattmia2 said:
    Not pitched the right way so the water is getting trapped somewhere instead of draining back to the boiler. What do you have for main vents? You have like 3 threads, I didn't notice anyone asking about that. If all the air it trying to get out because of a lack of main vents or main vents that don't open then the velocity at the radiator vents will be higher than normal. I think one of your other posts talks about the water line in the boiler falling too?

    i sent you a message not sure if you saw it 

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,575
    I saw it. You are probably better off posting it here or the answer at least, there will be people here that know far more than I do.

    You said that the mains are covered in some way so you can't see if there are main vents or if they are working. I would start here. If the radiator vents are trying to do all the work there may be enough velocity that they are bringing water with the air.

    Are the vents that are hissing and spitting really steam hot or is it just air and water? A new vent that is faster may be allowing the air that is escaping to pick up water, especially if the main vents aren't working and the whole system is trying to vent through the radiator vents.

    What were the old vents and what are the new vents? Others here can tell you the relative speed of the 2.
  • Fmassarotto_9
    Fmassarotto_9 Member Posts: 111
    mattmia2 said:
    I saw it. You are probably better off posting it here or the answer at least, there will be people here that know far more than I do. You said that the mains are covered in some way so you can't see if there are main vents or if they are working. I would start here. If the radiator vents are trying to do all the work there may be enough velocity that they are bringing water with the air. Are the vents that are hissing and spitting really steam hot or is it just air and water? A new vent that is faster may be allowing the air that is escaping to pick up water, especially if the main vents aren't working and the whole system is trying to vent through the radiator vents. What were the old vents and what are the new vents? Others here can tell you the relative speed of the 2.


    i use to have these 
    https://www.amazon.com/Varivalve-925005-00-Adjustable-Angle-Valve/dp/B009ATMA2I/ref=asc_df_B009ATMA2I/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=193984242218&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17389552808894753579&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9004321&hvtargid=pla-312805532547&psc=1   now i have these https://www.amazon.com/Midline-Valve-6J3I5-5-Regulator-Adjustable/dp/B08L5QQR3D/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=2643FBZJTT3PJ&keywords=midline+valve+air+vent&qid=1643145000&sprefix=midline+value+air+vent%2Caps%2C33&sr=8-3       

     they spit some water and release air and based on when i use a mirror it looks like cold water vapor. the hissing is still there but it's not as loud i guess the pig tail did something 

  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,692
    were you able(willing) to blow thru the pigtail and ensure it was clear all the way back into the boiler ?
    sounds like you're still chasing a pressure issue,
    was the pigtail bad, like gunked up to it's top ?
    and maybe some of that gunk is at the Ptrol ?
    did you check the bottom of the Ptrol?
    what pressure do you see on your gage when the hissing occurs?
    post a picture of the Ptrol, and pigtail,
    known to beat dead horses
  • Fmassarotto_9
    Fmassarotto_9 Member Posts: 111
    neilc said:
    were you able(willing) to blow thru the pigtail and ensure it was clear all the way back into the boiler ? sounds like you're still chasing a pressure issue, was the pigtail bad, like gunked up to it's top ? and maybe some of that gunk is at the Ptrol ? did you check the bottom of the Ptrol? what pressure do you see on your gage when the hissing occurs? post a picture of the Ptrol, and pigtail,

    after a good couple of blows i cleared out the pig tail. primed it with water like mentioned further up and it went right into the boiler. when the hissing occurs the gauge is basically stationary at 0. maybe it goes up very very very little