best quality steam valve

bostonapt

I need to get replacement steam Radiator Valve. Which brand is the best, aka last the longest.
My options are
watts, B & K, bluefin, Matco-Norca, Legend Valve
or another brand?
I see watts makes and brass and a bronze model, but I cant tell why you would want one over the other.
Any American made valves? I would like to avoid the cheap Chinese mades ones.
Trying to not just get the most expensive one. Yes my plumber will be installing it I am just buying the valve.
Any idea where I can find radiator shims?
Thanks

EBEBRATT-Ed

Watts, Hoffman, Wolverine Brass.

Any brand is JUNK compared to the old days.

I would strongly suggest you let the plumber buy the valve.

Someone needs to check the dimensions of the old valve versus the new valves available. You may have some movement in the piping to install a valve with slightly different dimensions and you may not.

You might end up having to shim or block the radiator up higher. If the plumber get's there and can't install the valve you bought..........then what???

bostonapt

I return it if they can't use the valve. The current valves are seized up.

No steam valves are american made? I thought watts was a good brand? What is the difference between watts brass and a bronze steam valve?

nicholas bonham-carter

If they are seized open, then leave them be, or replace with plain pipe, and fittings, as the valve must never be closed, unless the radiator is removed temporarily, for painting.
Changing valves can be a can of worms, even for an experienced steam fitter.—NBC

bburd

Is this a one pipe or two pipe steam system? If it’s one pipe, you can control the heat using the air vent rather than the supply valve.

bostonapt

It's a one pipe system. It is in a single condo unit in a multi unit building so incredible amounts of heat come out. Think 85F all winter long. So last year's stupid tenants turned the valves off, then this years stupid tenants could not turn them on since they where so messed up.

bburd

bostonapt said:

It's a one pipe system. It is in a single condo unit in a multi unit building so incredible amounts of heat come out. Think 85F all winter long. So last year's stupid tenants turned the valves off, then this years stupid tenants could not turn them on since they where so messed up.

Ouch. Unfortunately it sounds like you do need new valves. I’ve had good luck with Hoffman.

delcrossv

Marsh is made in the US- and they're packless!
marsh-steam.com/radiator_valves_r100.html

bostonapt

Nice Marsh looks like they actually have a metal handle unlike all the others have a cheap plastic handle.

nicholas bonham-carter

If you loosen the packing nut, then the seized valve will usually turn.
How is the system controlled? It sounds like the balance is off as well.—NBC

KC_Jones

bostonapt said:

It's a one pipe system. It is in a single condo unit in a multi unit building so incredible amounts of heat come out. Think 85F all winter long. So last year's stupid tenants turned the valves off, then this years stupid tenants could not turn them on since they where so messed up.

I get the impression you are not a tenant by your post, but I could be wrong. My question, why have the system running and or set up such that it is overheating apartments? That is a tremendous waste of fuel/money.

I know that isn't your original question, but when I read something like that I feel the need to comment as to other aspects of your system we could help with.

bostonapt

It is a 100+ old building where the steam heat comes on when the temperature outside drops below a certain temperature outside, I think 55. I am pretty sure the boiler provides steam to 12 units between two buildings. It is a very basic one pipe system because of how old it is. Check out a few pictures https://imgur.com/a/xxJ84nV No I did not paint any of the radiators, the person who painted them did a hideous job. It is just how they where designed back then.

Hap_Hazzard

That's not hideous. Hideous is when there are so many coats you can barely see light between the sections. At least it looks like they stripped the old paint before they repainted them.

KC_Jones

When that system was designed, it heated the building evenly and to the proper temperature, if that is currently not happening then the system has a problem.

The controls are adjustable, and 100 years ago they wouldn't have even had the controls you describe, those are newer, but should be fully adjustable to tune the system in.

Also imbalance and overheating on a one pipe system are almost always a venting issue that is relatively easily fixed.

Like I said, we like to help around here, and part of that is correct misunderstandings about what these systems are capable of. You present as having the opinion it's old and that's the way it is, which would be incorrect.

Hap_Hazzard

Personally, I'd be looking for the valves that match the dimensions of the existing valves, not looking for the best ones, and, assuming the tenants are going to monkey with them, I wouldn't look for anything too expensive. But that's just me.

STEAM DOCTOR

Have the plumber remove the guts of the existing valve (will turn it into a fancy elbow with a union). Install a 1/8" male by female ball valve, in the air vent tapping. Screw the air vent into the valve. 

STEAM DOCTOR

Dahl makes a good version. Available @ Supplyhouse 

EBEBRATT-Ed

As much as I agree with not having tennents messing with stuff in an apartment or condo I think valves should remain in case the heat needs to be shut of in an emergency. ......broken air vent.

It could make a big mess by the time the tennent finds the leak then finds the super to shut the boiler off because the tennent doesn't have access

delcrossv

@bostonapt You can't "throttle" one pipe steam using the radiator valve. It's either ON or OFF. Adjusting output is at the vent as Steam Doctor suggests. Close the vent and the radiator won't heat, Install a smaller vent, and it will heat slower and less.

https://supplyhouse.com/Dahl-521-50-60-1-8-FIP-x-1-8-MIP-Straight-Mini-Ball-Valve-Rough-Brass-Lead-Free

FWIW, in one of our buildings the system was installed in 1912 and the boiler replaced in 1965. It heats evenly and maintains a nice 70 degree +/- 2 degree temp in all apartments.

bostonapt

STEAM DOCTOR said:

Dahl makes a good version. Available @ Supplyhouse 

I can only find three brand of 1" Steam Angle Radiator Valves on supply house, none are Dahl.

delcrossv

It's a valve that goes before the vent, not on the supply. See my supplyhouse link above.

The vent is the roughly cylindrical item halfway up the radiator on the opposite side of the radiator valve.

The way this works is that as long as the air in the radiator can't escape from the vent, the steam can't get in regardless of whether the supply valve is open or not.

bostonapt

Sorry @delcrossv I would rather use designed for steam.

delcrossv

@bostonapt ??? designed for steam? It's a mini ball valve. .
Has nothing to do with the supply valve like the Marsh one I posted earlier. Two different animals for two different purposes. Maybe this will help:

bostonapt

Sorry @delcrossv I had no idea you where referring to a Dahl air vent.

delcrossv

@bostonapt No worries. The valve would go between the radiator and the air vent to throttle the radiator.

dopey27177

Marsh valves are fine, so are hoffman valves made by the zylem company.

Brass is fine bronze is used mostly for maarine use.

Jake

Hap_Hazzard

dopey27177 said:

Brass is fine bronze is used mostly for maarine use.

Jake

Technically, the difference between brass and bronze is that brass is a copper-zinc alloy and bronze is a copper-tin alloy. In alloys containing both tin and zinc, it depends on which is higher, but many brasses are called bronze and vice-versa. Properties of these alloys vary widely depending on other metals added to improve machinability, ductility, maleability and corrosion resistance. Naval brass like 464 and 485 are widely used in marine environments, and 280 was specifically designed for marine use. Most clipper ships had hulls lined with 280 brass.

A recent requirement that has had a huge impact on brass alloys is the requirement for lead-free products. Lead was traditionally added to alloys like 314 and 360 for machinability, which is essential in an alloy used to make valves. Most valves today are made from 693 eco brass, which contains no lead, arsenic or bismuth, but it machines at roughly the same rate as 360 free-machining brass. It also has excellent strength and corrosion resistance.