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Repiping an old boiler

BigMak
BigMak Member Posts: 37
edited October 3 in THE MAIN WALL
I'm replacing most of the piping coming off my 60+ yrs boiler.
I have 4 zones, 2 are on zone valves, supplying baseboards.
Supply side: All black pipe is 1-1/4. started with 18 rise, then shutoff valve (wondering if this is appropriate), new temp/press gauge, 18 horizontal run, air scoop/expansion tank, flow control, 3 port headed.
Return: new drain valve, and shut off. replacing one of the circulators.

some questions i have are: when tightening black pipe, when do you know its right? (read; till you see a few threads left) this is not always the same with each connects.
Do i have all crucial elements? Add or remove anything? I hate to think i am missing something.




Comments

  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,187
    You’re changing all the piping and not the boiler?
    Why not a standard pumping away configuration for optimal performance?
    And even in the wrong spot, you should still use isolation flanges around the circulator.
    steve
    HVACNUT
  • Ctoilman
    Ctoilman Member Posts: 105
    Not for anything, but wouldn't changing out the Sharkbite fittings strewn about be a higher priority since they're dealing with pressures like 5 times more than the heating system?
    mattmia2
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 9,678
    1 1/4" pipe use an 18" wrench. You will know when it's tight. Look at an elbow and measure how deep the threads are, when the pipe is tight it will be all the way in to the end of the threads in the fitting.......within reason, not all fittings are made to the exact same tolerances.

    What is the BTU of your boiler? 1 1/4" inch pipe is good for about 16gpm so if your boiler is 160,000 OUTPUT or less your ok on pipe size

    As others have mentioned putting the pump on the supply and pumping away from the expansion tank is the best way to go although many systems have been piped with the pump in the return.

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,084
    It would have been nice to see you drop by before you started any work. 
    Feel like starting over?
  • BigMak
    BigMak Member Posts: 37
    @STEVEusaPA: yes, i did notice that i forgot the isolation valves. do plan on putting on.
    to late to get new boiler. I eventually will.
    why is it better to but the circulators on the supply as oppose to the return?
  • BigMak
    BigMak Member Posts: 37
    @Ctoilman; the shark bits have been there for 10 yrs, not an issue. I use them sparingly, and probably will change to pex fitting and clamp.
    what do you think about the supply side i working on now?
    mattmia2
  • BigMak
    BigMak Member Posts: 37
    @HVACNUT Drop by? where? I'm only 25% in. what would you do different?
  • BigMak
    BigMak Member Posts: 37
    @EBEBRATT-Ed; I have no idea what the btu of this boiler is. I'm using a becket burner with a 1.25gh tip. I don't think it is over 160BTUs. although from the size of it, i think it could with a larger tip. this is what the whole thing looks like.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 3,668
    BTW, those little pieces of corrugate paper are almost certainly a layer of asbestos paper between the jacket and the heat exchanger of the boiler for insulation.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 3,668
    This is why the circulator should be on the supply along with the expansion tank if it is a bladder tank:
    https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/pumping-away-piping/
    BigMak
  • BigMak
    BigMak Member Posts: 37
    edited October 7
    @mattmia2: yes i'm aware of that. another reason to replace boiler. I was told if i don't disturb, it's not an issue. when i replace the boiler, it is a concern of mine. I imagine I'll be needing an abatement company to remove. any suggestions?

    thanks for the pump away piping article. Unfortunately, to far along to change. I will definitely do with new boiler.

    Q: with one circulator and 2 zone valves, would I use a mono flow or diverter tee? one on the supply and one on the return?
  • JakeCK
    JakeCK Member Posts: 248
    Hows that Rheem/Ruud/Richmond Hybrid hot water tank working for you?
  • BigMak
    BigMak Member Posts: 37
    @JakeCK: the rheem Hybrid HW is amazing!! first off I have solar that's over producing, so free electric. I had a std electric Hot WH, and then I installed the hybrid, cut the use down to 25% of previous. plus it help to dehumidify basement. I highly recommend.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,187
    mattmia2 said:

    This is why the circulator should be on the supply along with the expansion tank if it is a bladder tank:
    https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/pumping-away-piping/

    Here's another reason:
    steve
    BigMak
  • JakeCK
    JakeCK Member Posts: 248
    BigMak said:

    @JakeCK: the rheem Hybrid HW is amazing!! first off I have solar that's over producing, so free electric. I had a std electric Hot WH, and then I installed the hybrid, cut the use down to 25% of previous. plus it help to dehumidify basement. I highly recommend.

    I just bought one earlier this week. Still need to install it. It is replacing a 14yr old gas hot water heater that not only will probably need to be replaced soon but would also have to have the flue relined. When I ran the numbers the HPWH will use about the same amount electricity as my basement dehumidifier uses.

  • DavidDow_2
    DavidDow_2 Member Posts: 8
    We realize people want to save money, but what is the risk vs. expense.
    I have been to quite a number of DIY boiler and furnace replacement, re-pipe and repair jobs. Some, or few have been adequate, most though need serious attention to be safe. There have been a few I wouldn't touch and upon a visual inspection, notified the customer I would not be servicing the unit due to safety concerns. Money was the issue in all these cases.
    The internet has a lot of interesting stuff. Not all is good information.
    Good safety practices are paramount. These are pressure vessels subject to serious ills if something is overlooked or goes askew.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 3,668
    the internet has idronics....
    mjstrawCLambSolid_Fuel_Man
  • JakeCK
    JakeCK Member Posts: 248

    We realize people want to save money, but what is the risk vs. expense.
    I have been to quite a number of DIY boiler and furnace replacement, re-pipe and repair jobs. Some, or few have been adequate, most though need serious attention to be safe. There have been a few I wouldn't touch and upon a visual inspection, notified the customer I would not be servicing the unit due to safety concerns. Money was the issue in all these cases.
    The internet has a lot of interesting stuff. Not all is good information.
    Good safety practices are paramount. These are pressure vessels subject to serious ills if something is overlooked or goes askew.

    You're point is beyond a doubt valid. However there are people where the cost vs risk can't even be taken into account. One can argue they're risking their home and their lives but if one doesn't have the money to pay and can't qualify for financing, or if that financing would bankrupt them, that is all there is to it. And honestly, if the appliance has the correct pressure relief valve, aquastat, isn't leaking any gas and is venting correctly is it still any more dangerous than driving down the highway at 70mph?

    Further more what if one decides to walk away, forcing the HO to work on it him/herself, or hiring a 'handyman' and then the whole family ends up dead? How would you feel? Sure you would be covered legally but would you sleep well?
  • BigMak
    BigMak Member Posts: 37
    edited October 9
    thanks for your concerns feedback. I appreciate it all. Do keep it coming!
    I all these repairs are mostly replacing external parts that have failed or failing. I try to keep the same set up. Hence the return side circulator. had i'd know this was the best placement, I would have changed. As you can see this boiler was installed 70 years ago. and I try not to mess with too many fittings. if fact, every fitting i did attach new pipe to spit or cracked. And tackling the return side would be a can of worms I don't want to deal with. but I did replace one of the circulators and its piping. as you can see it was ancient and the pipe supporting it was bending, i'm surprised it didn't fail. and the other 2 circulates didn't have gaskets or if it did, was so britil is was cracking. so, I just update the current set up, and add the appropriate components. this set didn't have any air purging capability. adding it I hope will be a major improvement. as well as drain values, isolation valves, flanges gaskets and a bladder expansion tank. when i first moved in, the burner and its install was in bad shape. there was F'n tinfoil used to seal it. I cut a new plate, mounted it and use the correct bracket flange as you can see from the above pic. I have been servicing it every year, and haven't run into any issues. Why do this myself? Let's take money out of the equation. I do it because I have confidence in my abilities and derive great pride in doing it myself. same reason I do my own brake jobs, because i can. And the same can be said about the risk of not being able to stop the car.

    Given the correct info, I can make it happen. so as of today, here is the latest.



  • BigMak
    BigMak Member Posts: 37
    @JakeCK; what also great about this unit, is its customization ability. you can set it up for high demand mode during high use hours if needed. and seeing how you already have a dehumidifier, is a no brainer. also, after you but into service, give it a couple weeks to break in, as it learns your usage.
  • BigMak
    BigMak Member Posts: 37
    replacing boiler feed/pressure relief valve. any difference between Taco 334-T3 vs watts 1/2" 1450F Pressure Regulator & Relief Combo