Quick check of Panel Rad Piping

Jim R.

No matter how nice we paint our circa-1950's baseboard they're still the ugly duckling in otherwise remodeled rooms. Replacement covers go for about $30/ft,(our baseboards are a non-standard 10" high). Wife wants them out and replaced with panel rads like we have elsewhere.

Current setup: 1 zone, 1 circulator, two loops of baseboard fin about 130ft total.

I would like to replace one of those loops with panel rads except for two 4' fin sections at the beginning of the loop. Those 4' sections are for bathrooms and I don't want to get involved with a tile job on top of this.

See diagram of what I'm thinking. Is this a reverse-return setup? I'm also open to a series loop with H-valves but it's not much extra work for RR. With a RR, am I safe to eliminate H-values, balancing, isolation valves, etc? All rads will have TRV.

Question:

1. Will the single circulator still do the job? One loop is all 3/4" fin and the other loop will have mostly panels. Will they both get enough flow? Panels will have more "resistance" I assume.

2. Looking at Beacon Morris Panels. Would use Myson but my sizes are all backordered for months. Beacon's instructions say:
Choose a piping arrangement that is suitable for the job. If using 3/4" arrangement, it is highly recommended a 12" allowance of 1/2" piping prior to converting to 3/4"
Does this mean I need a 12" leg of 1/2" PEX before entering the rad? None of the other brands seem to need that.

Just planning out what has to be done. If there's no boiler work I may DIY. Pulling out the fin and running pex to the panels isn't bad.

Thanks folks!

EBEBRATT-Ed

I would put balancing valve on each radiator and each section of fin tube. On the radiator in the upper righ hand corner don't bull head the tee. Bring the supply flow into the run of the tee, branch goes to rad then put a 90 on the tee to turn towards the other side of the house.

On the bottom zone with the fin tube if you really have 80' of fin tube that is a no go. You can only put about 65' of 3/4 fin tube on a single loop. You need to make 2 separate 3/4" loops starting at the boiler supply and boiler return or a 1" supply and a 1" return that splits into 2 3/4 loops

You can do this all with one circ pump if you want. You need to be careful when picking the pump size you want to make sure you have enough flow & pump head

Someone or myself can size the pump once you have everything installed come back for more information. Your radiation adds up to 70,000 btu so you need the circ to move 7 gpm through the resistance of the installed pipe and fittings


Did you do a heat loss calculation?

Jim R.

You are right, the bottom section is 55ft of actual fins with another 25ft of plain pipe running through baseboard covers. The circulator is a Grundfos 15-58FC adjustable to 3 speeds, set to HI now.

I did the slant/fin heat loss for the loop I'm replacing and sanity checked with the amount of actual fin pipe in the room, using 600btu/ft. Then I oversized by about 10-15%, mainly because the two upper rooms are a little cool and the new heat will be coming from a single emitter. We don't have a lot of free wall space. If it's too much I figured we'd just turn down the TRV.

Stupid question: are balancing values the same as the H-valves (bypass/isolation) that fit on the bottom of the panel rads? Myson recommends them on all installs, BeaconMorris explicitly says they are only intended for one-pipe. Am I confusing the type of valve?

EBEBRATT-Ed

Not that famalier with panel radiators. Maybe someone else will chime in.

""The following information is primarily for use with Myson 6 port radiators which include the
Contractor Series and T6 model radiators. The T6 and Contractor Series radiators are designed to
be installed using the bottom supply and return connections. For additional intallation options
please see the publication "Optional Side Connection Installation Addendum".
Included and preinstalled in the T6 and Contractor Series radiators is a thermostatic valve insert. The
addition of an optional thermostatic valve head will provide automatic valve operation, allowing the
user to set and maintain individual room temperature. When used with a 'Home Run' piping system
this will allow each radiator to be controlled independently of each other allowing every room to be
set at a different temperature providing custom comfort environments.
A variety of TRV heads are available.
An optional 'H' pattern by-pass valve is available in both angle and straight configurations. These
valves give greater control over water flow rates as well as provide easier air purging and system
maintainence if required. For additional information please see the publication "Optional 'H'
Diverter Valve Single Pipe Installation Addendum".
T6 and Contractor Series
R rads. ""

I would say skip the H valves and use balancing valves

55' of fin tube is ok on 1 3/4" loop

Myson says to use the "H" valve on a one pipe system only as well. That part didn't copy

mattmia2

The only reason you would want the bypass radiator valve on a system with separate supply and returns to each emitter is if you had a boiler/near boiler piping that was set up in such a way that you needed to maintain a minimum flow in the system even if only one radiator/zone was calling.

I suppose if you were using a pump with a curve that pushed a lot of flow through that single zone you would also want to bypass some of that, but that is more a bandaid for poor pump selection.