IBC or Viessmann 10k sqft house Vancouver BC

andytechno

Hi Everyone,
Thanks for the amazing help in this forum.

I am reaching out to seek more feedback on which boiler to use.

Our house details are:
10k sq ft
Vancouver BC
Indoor pool and hot tub
Radiant floor heating
5 residents in house

I found a good plumber and he has a lot of experience with Viessmann. He is recommending Vitodens 200-W and we are considering if we should put two of them in duplex?

However I got a few other quotes and they were consistently recommending IBC for the houses in my area. They also said that parts for IBC are easier to get.

What are you thoughts?

Paul Pollets

I would use the Vitocrossal CU3A Viessmann rather tham the Vitodens. It has all the features and computer and is easier to clean and service. You would only need one boiler and an indirect water tank. The boiler can provide up to 3 circuit temperatures plus a pool/spa HX and the water tank. The Viessmann headquarters is in Langley, you can view their working showroom and see the equipment with a short field trip.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Both boilers are excellent! IBC is made in Canada and readily available parts is a big advantage.

I'd say it comes down to the final proposals, reputation and proximity of the installers.

andytechno

Paul Pollets said:

I would use the Vitocrossal CU3A Viessmann rather tham the Vitodens. It has all the features and computer and is easier to clean and service. You would only need one boiler and an indirect water tank. The boiler can provide up to 3 circuit temperatures plus a pool/spa HX and the water tank. The Viessmann headquarters is in Langley, you can view their working showroom and see the equipment with a short field trip.

Thanks Paul. This is really good feedback. I talked to my trader person and he is going to visit my house with a company representative this week. I am liking the Vitocrossal based on what I am reading.

Thanks and really appreciate your feedback.

Do you see any strong reason why I should go with IBC. I like my current trade person and he is more comfortable with Viessmann.

Also do you have any thought on PexA vs PexB. We are redoing the plumbing and radiant heating in the house. The tradesperson said that he can do either. He thinks that I can save money with PexB though and he hasn't faced any issues with PexB.

Thanks cone again!

andytechno

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes said:

Both boilers are excellent! IBC is made in Canada and readily available parts is a big advantage.

I'd say it comes down to the final proposals, reputation and proximity of the installers.

Thanks Alan. IBC is made in the same geographic area so that is a good advantage. Is there any strong reason to not to go for Viessmann. We are thinking of going with the Vitocrossal 300 CU3A.

Thanks

HVACNUT

andytechno said:

Thanks Paul. This is really good feedback. I talked to my trader person and he is going to visit my house with a company representative this week. I am liking the Vitocrossal based on what I am reading. Thanks and really appreciate your feedback. 

I like my current trade person and he is more comfortable with Viessmann. 

Seems like a no brainer. 
Now for the heat loss calculation. 

Paul Pollets

Viessmann is well supported in the Vancouver area. IBC is a good boiler, but in my opinion, Viessmann has the advantages. I've used their equipment for over 25 years and have been very pleased with the products. Finding a qualified installer is the hard part. As HVACNUT stated, a project of this size and scope needs a properly prepared heat loss calc, manifold byalancing data and DHW tank specifications. We usually provide CAD loop layout drawings with manifold locations, as well.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Is there any strong reason to not to go for Viessmann. We are thinking of going with the Vitocrossal 300 CU3A.

Not at all. The CU3A is a wonderful boiler.

Also do you have any thought on PexA vs PexB.

All I've ever used is PEX A; like it because the fittings are the same diameter as the tubing and don't restrict flow. If you kink PEX B, you have to cut it out. With PEX A, it will return to normal when heated with a heat gun.

andytechno

Paul Pollets said:

Viessmann is well supported in the Vancouver area. IBC is a good boiler, but in my opinion, Viessmann has the advantages. I've used their equipment for over 25 years and have been very pleased with the products. Finding a qualified installer is the hard part. As HVACNUT stated, a project of this size and scope needs a properly prepared heat loss calc, manifold byalancing data and DHW tank specifications. We usually provide CAD loop layout drawings with manifold locations, as well.

Thanks Paul. I am using a General contractor who recommended an installer. The installer has done some work during the process and his work has been good so far (fixed a few leaks, created a separate line to Dryatron, added Flo by moen). He also seems knowledgable.

Viessmann people are visiting my house this week and they will build a plan. In your experience who builds the CAD loop layout: installer or Viessmann?

We did an energy evaluation as a part of our reno application. Is that the same as the heat loss calc or is it something different?

Thanks once again. This is really helpful. After your post I am convinced to go ahead with Viessmann!

andytechno

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes said:

Is there any strong reason to not to go for Viessmann. We are thinking of going with the Vitocrossal 300 CU3A.

Not at all. The CU3A is a wonderful boiler.

Also do you have any thought on PexA vs PexB.

All I've ever used is PEX A; like it because the fittings are the same diameter as the tubing and don't restrict flow. If you kink PEX B, you have to cut it out. With PEX A, it will return to normal when heated with a heat gun.

Thanks Alan.

Only potential issue I found with PexA is that I read that it leeches more chemicals. Apart from that it's sounds really good. What are you thoughts on this aspect.

Thanks and I really appreciate your help!

Paul Pollets

The ability of the installer to use the modern software available to design these systems will depend. The larger mechanical firms will have their own CAD specialists. Uponor offers design CAD services as does Viega. The specific heat loss calcs generated by the software is invaluable to proper system design and balancing. Don't leave home without it...

andytechno

Paul Pollets said:

The ability of the installer to use the modern software available to design these systems will depend. The larger mechanical firms will have their own CAD specialists. Uponor offers design CAD services as does Viega. The specific heat loss calcs generated by the software is invaluable to proper system design and balancing. Don't leave home without it...

Thanks. Will ask the GC about it. Our current Boiler is a 25 year old 270k BTU cast iron boiler. Based on my reading I need at least 220k BTU. I am trying to understand the Vitocrossal CU3A specs but based on my reading they support max 185k BTU/hr. So much to figure out. Excited to learn more because this is my first home.

Thanks once again for the help.

Paul Pollets

You may need (2) Vitocrossal CU3A's to match the load. You'll need appx 150K btus for the radiant and want at least another 100K for any heat exchanger, plus the DHW load, if not on priority. The boiler will be sized on the correct loads needed. The heat loss calcs tell the story.

andytechno

Paul Pollets said:

You may need (2) Vitocrossal CU3A's to match the load. You'll need appx 150K btus for the radiant and want at least another 100K for any heat exchanger, plus the DHW load, if not on priority. The boiler will be sized on the correct loads needed. The heat loss calcs tell the story.

This might get quiet expensive when a single Vitodens 200 can support 285k-530k BTU. Is there a major advantage of Vitocrossal CU3A vs Vitodens 200?

Thanks

Paul Pollets

The larger Vitodens will certainly do the job. The CU3A is slightly easier to clean and service, and doesn't require a low loss header for system piping.

andytechno

Paul Pollets said:

The larger Vitodens will certainly do the job. The CU3A is slightly easier to clean and service, and doesn't require a low loss header for system piping.

Really appreciate your help. I am meeting the Veissmann person this week and will update based on what I hear.

andytechno

We had someone from Viessmann come over today.

They are proposing two Vitocrossal MU3A. Would that be a good idea. They have another boiler launching later this year which will be 400k BTU, so we wouldn't need 2. But we can't wait that long.

Does IBC have high mass boilers?

Shahrdad

The nice thing is that both boilers can run simultaneously at a lower modulation, and they will be much more efficient than one running at full capacity.

Paul Pollets

The load must be met, and if it requires 2 boilers, so be it. This is a condensing load, so the choice is a fully modulating condensing boiler. Or 2.