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steam --oil filer - spin type? , 10 or 30 micron? Tigerloop Ultra Oil De-aerator and Spin-On Filter?

LS123
LS123 Member Posts: 466
Good morning!

About a month ago, we had the oil tank nearly filled. Oil delivery service person was nice and asked me if i would like to add "hot 4 in 1" it seems to help. but i can see less than handful of spots on the boiler (cast iron heat exchange where water for steam held at) Are shining spots.... considered "varnish"?

During next off heating season, i am considering adding another oil filter.
1 - would there be additional benefits of having a spin type oil filter? two filters (one at burner, one at the tank)
2 - What is best filter for residential oil burner? 10 or 30 micron (westwood)?
3- Only added benefit I see having a Tigerloop Ultra Oil De-aerator and Spin-On filter would be--> "Preheats the oil for cleaner combustion." Oil tank is indoor basement. Are there are more benefits, from this type of tiger loop filter? cost of the t loop / filters etc. are irrelevant.

thank you!
Thank you!
@LS123

Comments

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 13,456
    If you don"t need a tiger loop don't put one on, it's just something else to go wrong. Your oil tank is inside so no need to preheat the oil.

    As far as filters go check you filter if it's ok leave it as is. If you start getting gunk put a spin on filter at the burner. Don't add one if you don't need it it adds more vacuum to the system
    LS123
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,998

    If you don"t need a tiger loop don't put one on, it's just something else to go wrong. Your oil tank is inside so no need to preheat the oil.

    As far as filters go check you filter if it's ok leave it as is. If you start getting gunk put a spin on filter at the burner. Don't add one if you don't need it it adds more vacuum to the system

    This. What kind of filter do you have now?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • LS123
    LS123 Member Posts: 466
    @EBEBRATT-Ed , thank you! last time filter got changed, there was a little wax was there. that was before getting the tank cleaned up for sludge.

    Understood, no t-loop, no value added reasons for second filter etc....

    many thanks!
    Thank you!
    @LS123
  • LS123
    LS123 Member Posts: 466
    @Steamhead , its a westwood canister with, like wool filter. thanks!
    Thank you!
    @LS123
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 5,654
    Is the fuel pump using a return line to the tank? (called 2 pipes) If no, then you don't need a tiger loop. If yes, then how bad is the oil filter when you change out the refill cartridge? Is one year of build-up on the filter minimal or "really gross"?

    I'm a fan of the Tiger loop to solve any problem related to the flow rate of the oil thru the fuel line. A two-pipe fuel system will have oil flow equal to the gearset capacity. That can be as high as 25GPH (about 17gph on A2VA and Beckett clean-cut pumps) The oil filter will be filtering that high rate of fuel on a two-pipe system and you need the filter to be able to handle that capacity.

    If you have a one-pipe fuel line system then you only filter the firing rate of the burner. So no need for a Tiger loop.

    IF YOU HAVE: Clean tank, (new tank) clean fuel lines, new filter, the filter looks like it has no build-up on the replacement (throw away) cartridge after one year of use, and purchase clean oil, then you don't need to do anything now.

    If there is a 30+-year-old tank full of sludge and other tank bottom deposits, the fuel lines are buried in the concrete floor for 30+ years, you purchase discount oil and get oil from other peoples old tank pump-outs, and the filter cartridge looks like something from the bottom of a tar pit after 6 months of use. Then you need more than a tiger loop. (but it could be a band-aid for a few years)

    So, if you are looking to fix a varnish coating on the boiler surfaces with a filter and/or a Tiger loop, you are probably looking in the wrong direction. Varnish is usually a byproduct of poor combustion, not from a contaminant that can be filtered out. Varnish on the nozzle and electrodes is usually from after drip.
    varnish on the cast iron boiler heat exchanger is usually from too much air. (Fire too lean)

    Respectfully submitted,
    Mr.Ed
    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
    LS123SuperTech
  • LS123
    LS123 Member Posts: 466
    hello @EdTheHeaterMan

    We have a single line oil tank, not even 10 feet away from the boiler / burner. pipe on the tank and oil burner height difference is less than three or four inches. Tank then did have some sludge, but before 2020-2021 heating season Tank was cleaned, has new oil with 1 bottle of 4 in 1.

    All fuel lines / filter(s) are new, and above ground. we were told tank is in good condition. its been indoors, humidity control basement spring / summer / fall.

    Filter had some wax during 2019-2020 heating season....in side filter canister, bottom part, if i am correct...

    There are about three spots of varnish (visible,) no bigger than a square inch or so. only reason I noticed that because the Hot 4 in 1 bottle had something about remove or reduced varnishing. I do not think there is varnish on the nozzle or on electrodes.

    So varnishing is not a significant matter right now... since I had time, i figured i would ask the members of the forum...

    thanks again for the information Ed!

    Thank you!
    @LS123
    dennis53
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,998
    From what you're telling us, no changes are needed.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    LS123
  • LS123
    LS123 Member Posts: 466
    before I had the feedback, i thought i may need some changes to the system. yes, agreed @Steamhead , it looks like no changes are needed, but learned a lot. Thank you!
    Thank you!
    @LS123
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 5,654
    edited March 2021
    Agree with @Steamhead

    If you have a filter that takes the refill that looks like felt rings around a screen like the one on the left, I would use the replacement cartridge on the right if you have a small firing rate Anything below 1.00 GPH nozzle.


    If you use bio-fuel, there is a different version of the one on the right for use with bio-fuel.

    Also when replacing a nozzle, do not touch the orifice or the sintered filter. Only touch the hex portion of the nozzle to keep any microscopic contaminants from your fingers from being accidentally forces into the orifice or the filter. I have a 3/16 flare cap that I keep on my pressure gauge. After thoroughly cleaning the nozzle line, I would place that flare cap on the nozzle line tube and fill the nozzle adaptor with clean oil before inserting the nozzle. By charging the High-Pressure line with oil before installing the nozzle, you remove most of the air from the High-Pressure line. On smaller firing rate nozzles, it reduces the occurrence of forcing any stray debris from the inside of the High-Pressure line into the filter, slots, or orifice of the nozzle causing it to become plugged or partially plugged.

    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
    LS123
  • LS123
    LS123 Member Posts: 466
    thank you @EdTheHeaterMan ! Currently I have the filter on the left. Since nozzle is 0.85 gph, I should start using the filter on the right, plus, it visually seems like a better filter, although I still have yet to learn how the physical attributes, type of filter material, etc. work specifically on each filter. Thank you for sharing best way to replace the nozzle, filter, and how to keep the fuel line clean. I think once a year cleaning, replacement of parts (filter, nozzle) is the plan for now.

    Have two question...
    Q1) You mentioned "High-Pressure line" is that because the oil burner pump, by default most has PSI of 100, and these pumps can be adjusted to work with even higher (like 150+ PSI) as needed?
    Q2) I am little confused by few online clips, and online info.
    (a) one clip mentioned that when you increase pump PSI it would use more oil than default oil consumption, also there are so many charts by pump, nozzle manufactures confirm this is the case.
    (b) I am confused by Suntec pump (A2VA7116 specs) label.. it states 3gph at 100-150 PSI and 2gph at 150-200 psi (is the label on the pump manufacture assume ( or documented) higher PSI (150-200) to be used with longer cone and smaller nozzle ? Best!

    Thank you!
    @LS123
  • LS123
    LS123 Member Posts: 466
    Correction:
    (b) I am confused by Suntec pump (A2VA7116 specs) label.. it states 3gph at 100-150 PSI and 2gph at 150-200 psi (is the label on the pump manufacture assume ( or documented) higher PSI (150-200) to be used with longer AIR TUBE and smaller nozzle ? Best!
    Thank you!
    @LS123
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 5,654
    edited March 2021
    The High-Pressure line on an oil burner is any part of the oil piping that connects the "nozzle' outlet of the fuel pump to the Nozzle. This diagram indicated the High-pressure line There are 3 distance parts (or 6 if you want to be technical on this particular burner and count the fittings and flare nuts) There is the Jet line


    which is the copper that connects to the nozzle assembly and there is the nozzle line which is the frame that all the other parts of the assembly and there is the nozzle adaptor.

    The part that comes out of the burner, to replace the nozzle, is the High-pressure line that I charge with oil when I replace a small GPH nozzle.

    The reason I do this is so that the hammer effect of high-pressure air and liquid traveling thru the piping/tubing will be reduced. Picture in your mind's eye that hammer effect you get when you have water in a hose and a trigger spray nozzle to turn the flow off when you wash your car or water the flowers. That difference in flow rate as the air in the hose clears the hose. then more water, then air, then water, then air. There is a hammering effect because the air is compressed but the liquid is not compressed. Well, that jolting/hammering effect can loosen debris from inside the high-pressure pipe/tubing that may not have been completely cleared away. That force can drive the debris thru the sintered filter and get lodged in one of the tangental stots of the nozzle. That will alter the fire pattern of the flame.

    By charging the high-pressure line with clean liquid fuel, the air bubbles are much smaller, less air to compress, and less hammer effect. Before I was taught that process (over 40 years ago) I would find that I had a 30% "Bad Nozzle" out of the box experience. After I started using that procedure, I can't remember 7 "Bad Nozzles" out of the box in the last 30 years

    Pressure info to follow.


    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
    LS123
  • LS123
    LS123 Member Posts: 466
    thank you @EdTheHeaterMan ... very informative! Looking forward to reading and learning more....Best!
    Thank you!
    @LS123
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 5,654
    edited March 2021
    Regarding oil pressure, when a fuel pump is designed, the gear set needs to maintain a given pressure. in order to do that, there must be extra oil under pressure in order to maintain the flow rate at the given pressure. When the gear set of the pump discharges the oil into the nozzle port there is a pressure regulator that is pushed open by the oil pressure exiting the gear set. The adjustment spring holds the regulator valve closed until there is enough pressure to force the pressure regulator valve to open and "Bypass" the oil in the fuel pump. On a single pipe system, like yours, the oil is channeled to the inlet compartment thru a bypass opening inside the pump. (In a two-pipe set up the bypass is plugged and the bypass oil is returned to the tank in a second fuel line.)

    The spring on the pressure regulator valve holds the fuel back from the bypass at the predetermined pressure setting, usually 100 PSI. By adjusting more pressure on the spring the oil in the nozzle port area is under higher pressure, By reducing the pressure on the adjustment spring the pressure in the nozzle port area is lower. Now the reason the firing rate specification of the fuel pump is lower under higher pressure is the amount of bypass oil required is greater at a higher pressure. if you need more bypass oil to maintain higher oil pressure, then there is less oil available for actual burning.

    The reason you may want to use a higher pressure is the size of the droplets of the oil. You see oil does not burn as a liquid. It can only burn as a vapor or a gas. The liquid only turns to vapor from the surface. So a Pot type burner has a pot of oil and the top layer of the oil evaporates and can then burn. With an atomizing gun burner, the nozzle creates tiny droplets of oil which increases the surface area of the fuel.



    This illustration shows the same cube sliced 3 times and 6 times. Each slice increases the surface area of the same volume of material. More oil surface area more evaporation area. > More evaporation area, more vapor. > More vapor more flame.

    increase the pressure and you increase the energy that is breaking up the oil into droplets. You will get more droplets thru the same opening but the droplets will be smaller. By increasing the pressure, and reducing the orifice, you can have a net equal fuel flow but the droplets are much smaller

    It was discovered that when an oil flame was not getting sufficient air, a pulsing action would occur. it was also discovered that the pulsing was reduced when the spray droplets were smaller. That is when the 100 PSI standard was adopted over 100 years ago. Taking that a step further higher pressure with smaller droplets did not need as much extra air to achieve complete combustion. As oil burners became more efficient some of the manufactures found that using smaller nozzles with higher pressures was allowing them the reach higher efficiencies on their equipment.

    School is over for today.

    I hope this helps you have a better understanding.

    Yours truly
    Mr.Ed
    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
    LS123SuperTech
  • LS123
    LS123 Member Posts: 466
    thank you @EdTheHeaterMan ! you explain SO well and so detail oriented. You knowledge, experience in heating world definitely help individuals like I, that is on this forum.

    "Give a Man a Fish, and You Feed Him for a Day. Teach a Man To Fish, and You Feed Him for a Lifetime"


    Thank you again!
    Thank you!
    @LS123
    EdTheHeaterMan
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 5,654
    edited March 2021
    LS123 said:

    thank you @EdTheHeaterMan !

    "Give a Man a Fish, and You Feed Him for a Day. Teach a Man To Fish, and You Feed Him for a Lifetime"


    Thank you again!

    I can't help it BUT I must correct you on your quote

    Give a Man a Fish, and You Feed Him for a Day. Teach a Man To Fish, and he will spend hours on the water until his cooler runs out of beer"
    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
    LS123
  • LS123
    LS123 Member Posts: 466
    LOL..... that is so funny @EdTheHeaterMan
    Thank you!
    @LS123
    EdTheHeaterMan