Solenoids, Steam traps and near kettle piping also steam supply and steam condensate return

alexander50

Take a look at these pictures and let me know what you guys think. might have to bring back , Dan Holohan for this one. i wonder if I can load a video. I came across this job and its referral from so and so. The task was connect a few lines which turned into this. I'm trying to figure out near kettle piping and what to do with a 2 inch steam supply about 15 ft above grade. and 5 inches below that line is the condensate return. I am trying to help this gentleman because the other plumber basically screwed this poor guy trying to get his restaurant up and running. I need this communities help as I cant be on hold with some of these manufacturer.
Questions:
Near kettle piping is black iron. I have pitched the piping towards the kettles and followed the instructions on how to protect the Asco solenoids with strainers and isolation service valves. So basically off the supply to kettle Goes as follows: Supply+ball valve+nipple+union+nipple+strainer+nipple+solenoid+nipple+ union+nipple+ball valve to kettle see pics
Question is what is best practice and is this configuration up to par?
I know i have to pitch the supply but in which direction and what to do with return?
The taps for the returns off the kettle are 1 inch so we purchased 1 inch steam traps the old one were bushed down to 3/4 so not sure on that one.


https://youtu.be/ioYafXk_-8U

EBEBRATT-Ed

You should come off the main and pitch down. At the bottom of the drop to the unit put a drip leg tee (like a drip in a gas line). Take the steam to the kettle off the side and on the bottom put a 3/4" F & T trap to drip the line with a ball valve and Y strainer in front of the trap. Put the solenoid & Y strainer and ball valve for the Asco coming off the side of the stem drop.

I would size the traps for the Kettle based on the manufacturers rating not on the pipe size. Use a safety factor of at least 2-1 to size that trap (2 x what the kettle mfg tells you.

Some excellent material is Sarco books you can download from their web site. 1 is piping hook ups. The other book is steam utilitazation. The have good hook up drawings

alexander50

I appreciate your guidance ty for taking the time to comment.

Steamhead

Does the return line have to be that far up? If so, you will need more steam pressure to lift the condensate. Lower it if you can so the condensate can return to the boiler by gravity.

If you can't lower the return, the next-best way is to drain the kettle traps into the tank of a small condensate pump, which can then pump the condensate up to the overhead return.

We did this at a local plating plant, and were able to lower the operating pressure by 5 PSI or so. This meant the boiler did not have to run as much to operate the system, saving fuel.

alexander50

Hey good sir first thank you for getting back to me. How about the end of the runs what do you make of that. I think i should take the 2 in line and somehow return it to the condensate any thoughts? And in addition what should i do with the return line? Any thoughts
Also i know i have to re-pitch the supply but i have to do something with condensate.

Steamhead

I think you need a Steam Guy there. Where are you located?

alexander50

I thought you were a steam guy sorry sir and im out in arizona
but thanks alot for the info and i did print that hook ups manual this is more than enough its just been a while for me and you know what they say if dont use it you lose it .

neilc

it's one thing to give helpful hints and fixes over the internet,
designing a brewery is a little more hands on, walk in the door, or post the build prints , kinda thing,
which way are all those lines pitched? or dead level? where's the boiler ?

neilc

main and return need opposing pitch ,
some kinda crossover trap and or main venting,
as above, the condensate needs to get back up to the return,
etc , , ,

Henry

What is the diameter of the kettle and what are you cooking? You will have to install a vacuum breaker after the solenoid. I can provide you with the proper pounds of steam upon start up. Most steam trap manufacturers use a 3X safety factor. Check the pressure rating of the kettle. Make sure that it has the proper safety valve for the rating. PM me your email, I can send you some drawings of kettle installations.

Steamhead

alexander50 said:

I thought you were a steam guy sorry sir and im out in arizona
but thanks alot for the info and i did print that hook ups manual this is more than enough its just been a while for me and you know what they say if dont use it you lose it .

I am a Steam Guy, but Steam Guys don't come with long-distance X-ray vision. We have to actually BE there.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@alexander50

If you follow the diagrams in the Sarco book you downloaded you should be in good shape

alexander50

Hey guys these are the plans of the original location in Colorado now there in AZ. I just wanted to say thank you Erin Holohan Haskell for your reply and thank you and your Dad for all you do for our trade. May God reward you with peace and tranquility. A bit of a back drop.. Some plumber came in on this job and ran off with the deposit money from the client. This is why I'M feeling obligated to help this client.. so far they've been paying for the materials and will satisfy his labor debt when were up and running. My deepest gratitude for all who become part of this project and i promise to buy you guys lunch through Uber eats or something. Help me build confidence back for our trade.

alexander50

I'LL be there tomorrow and will take more video for you steam head Also will have more answers for Nelic ty sir and yes they appear to be dead flat sometimes I feel overwhelmed to be honest but I'm not quitter and really don't care what people say as to how long this job is done right some people don't understand that steam can kill some one if not done right. Henry can't wait to hear from you and thanks for reaching out your a true pro sir. Also Ed your the man ty for the heads up on the Sarco hook ups book.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@alexander50

Good luck with your project. The drawings are nice but little more than a flow diagram. Really doesn't show the nuts and bolts of it.

I piped up about 30 machines for a clothing manufacturer with 100psi steam 2 50hp boilers. All the equipment came from Italy (except the boiler)

Did the whole thing with no drawing and it worked well....but it was a challenge


The worst part was getting the information from the MFG...didn't get much

alexander50

Thanks again for the words of encouragement here's a video from today any suggestions will be truly helpful.
https://youtu.be/i6SLxw33Acg

Henry

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

@alexander50

Good luck with your project. The drawings are nice but little more than a flow diagram. Really doesn't show the nuts and bolts of it.

I piped up about 30 machines for a clothing manufacturer with 100psi steam 2 50hp boilers. All the equipment came from Italy (except the boiler)

Did the whole thing with no drawing and it worked well....but it was a challenge


The worst part was getting the information from the MFG...didn't get much

I have done a lot of work with Italian food equipment. Batteria is heat exchanger. They use either kcalories or Kg of steam using Bar for pressure. I have done some work for breweries and distilling. The German plans and specs are the best. I recertified the Heineken brewery from Cambodia that a customer Bought. I had all the documentations on the SS including flex and brittle tests. If you need help with Euro equipment, PM me.