Large stain under burner

Jyuma

I installed my Slant Fin boiler Liberty II model LD-30P a decade ago and it has worked flawlessly ever since.
Suddenly I noticed a large stain 24" in diameter under the burner. I checked all the fuel line connections and none show any signs of leaking.
The stain is not wet nor is there an abnormally high odor, it's just a large stain under the burner that I never noticed before.
The burner has one of those delayed nozzles where the burner runs for 10 or 15 seconds before it ignites the fuel. I'm wondering if it is possible that the nozzle is leaking oil before the ignition comes on.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Ed

Robert_25

If you have a Riello burner check the hydraulic air shutter.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Have you or anyone else serviced the burner recently? I am assuming the leak is oil, is it?

Could be the nozzle is loose, pump seal leaking, burner head fouled or solenoid valve not closing tightly.

I would open up the burner and take a look

Steamhead

Pictures?

Jyuma

The problem appears to be getting a little worse. The stain hasn't grown but I can hear the burner puffing a little bit every few minutes while it's running. I took the covers off and removed the stack which gave me access to the fins that were coated with soot but not blocked.
I used a long boiler brush to clean the soot out and reassembled the burner. It fired right back up but the minor puffing every few minutes of operation continued.
Today the burner tripped off and I needed to press the reset button on the control. This is the first time in all the years that I needed to press the reset button.
The tank is in the garage quite far away from the burner. I haven't changed the in-line oil filter (1A-25A) in years so tomorrow I'll replace the filter on the chance that maybe the pump is having difficulty drawing the fuel from so far away... (50 feet).
Here are a few pictures of the burner and the oil stain...

Steamhead

Definitely an oil leak, @lyuma . Time to call a pro. Where are you located?

mattmia2

Steamhead said:

Definitely an oil leak, @lyuma . Time to call a pro. Where are you located?

Sounds like it was probably time to call an oil burner tech to clean it and adjust combustion and draft about 5 years ago.

STEVEusaPA

If you didn’t change the filter in 5 years, it’s possible a restriction caused a high vacuum that may have damaged the pump seal. That may be your oil leak.
I gave an answer when you first posted, but it seems to have disappeared.
I wouldn’t change the filter yourself. It won’t fix your problem.

Jyuma

Over night the stain grew by two inches but after careful inspection of all the externals there was no sign of a leak.
The burner appears to run just fine other than the occasional muffled puff I hear.

Still, I couldn't ignore the growing stain so I opened the oil burner to get a look at the ignition and nozzle.

Here is what I found...



Is it a symptom or a cause?

mattmia2

It is a symptom as well as the "occasional puff" that it needs to be adjusted by an oil burner tech with the correct combustion and draft analysis equipment and skills.

Jyuma

Sage advice to be sure, but I'm the type that must know how everything works.

I removed the nozzle and here's what I found on the nozzle screen...


It's amazing oil was able to get thru that screen at all.
The nozzle is 80 degree 1.10. I keep a variety of nozzles in stock but I don't have a 1.10... I do have an 80 degree 1.25 in stock. Any reason why I shouldn't user it?

Thanks

Jyuma

I replaced the nozzle with the 1.25 I had in stock. Here's what it looks like now...



I reinstall and see how it does.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@lyuma

You really need to get this thing serviced by someone who has combustion test instruments.

If the nozzle is plugged I can gauarantee the oil filter and pum strainer are plugged

Others have given the same advise above.

It's up to you it's your house

You are taking a risk putting in a larger nozzle without testing is a very poor idea

Not good

Keep going like this and you will cause more problems

Jyuma

OK... will do.

PerryHolzman

You do understand that a burner that is not functioning properly can generate a lot of Carbon Monoxide - and kill you and your friends and family.

Admittedly that is more rare these days.... and It's your life and your house if you are single (and you are facing potential 2nd degree murder charges if you are not and survive). But, there really is a time and place to call in a professional who has the correct instruments to set up the burner properly once all the needed parts are cleaned and replaced.

Also, please tell them its a Becket Burner and what size nozzle was there so they can bring it, and other parts, with them.

If you want to know how it works... Study up on the combustion process of boiler oil burners - and why they are set up with people with proper combustion tools. This is not just a mechanical plugging or wear issue.

Perry

Jyuma

I called "the professional" and he was able to verify that what I had expected was the problem, indeed was the problem.

Two great guys showed up and we all had a good laugh as they opened the pump and saw the screen... "OMG! This is the absolute worst I've even seen" said one of the guys. He replaced the screen and put in a 1.0 nozzle.

I asked him if he would mind changing the filter in the in-line 1A-25A filter housing, he said sure... no problem. When he opened the housing his astonishment was even more pronounced than when he saw the screen in the pump. The filter in the housing was so bad that he had trouble removing it from the housing.

New 1A-25A filter, new screen in the pump, new 1.0 nozzle, and some minor adjustments to the flame and off they went.

Thank you all for your excellent advice, although the possibility of murder charges may have been a wee bit over the top.

EdTheHeaterMan

Jyuma said:

I called "the professional" ...

Thank you all for your excellent advice, although the possibility of murder charges may have been a wee bit over the top.

It seemed that you were not listening to the "Call the Pro" advice as you continued to post your progress. I believe the severity of the situation was being ignored. After the possibility of legal problems were mentioned, you "Called the Pro." Carbon monoxide, Puff Back, Boiler Explosions, and the like are only a few reasons to have a Pro, complete an Annual Maintenance as listed in the Boiler and Oil Burner Installation and Operation Manual EVERY YEAR.

But I would guess that you will wait another 5 years for that REQUIRED maintenance.

Good luck with your heating system, and with that oil change and break adjustments on your car and the batteries in your smoke detectors (are they 5 years old too?)

Respectfully Submitted,
Mr.Ed

EdTheHeaterMan

BTW. Lack of maintenance is cause to void the lifetime warranty on the boiler sections. But You knew that because you read the boiler instructions and warrant information that came with the boiler.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Glad you have it fixed.
No one is trying to give you a hard time, only keep you and your family safe.
Oil heat is safe but an explosion from it do to delayed ignition or other issues has been compared to dynamite

General 1A25 are good oil filters and they stop a lot of gunk.

The first clue was when you pulled the nozzle out and the nozzle strainer was plugged.

Any time you find the nozzle plugged you will find the oil filter and the screen in the pump plugged because the oil passes through their first.

I would recommend some oil treatment be put in the tank as this is likely to repeat itself. I would also get a couple of spare oil filter cartridges and change the filter every 6 months and learn how to bleed the oil pump. You could have this done or do it yourself.

You also run the risk of pluggin the oil line between the tank and the burner which you want to avoid

Jyuma

I don't mean to sound unappreciative but was it really necessary for some to become borderline insulting? I could understand some of the vitriol had I said... "hey, I'm not going to take your advice... it's my house and I'll do whatever I want", but I didn't do that... I called a pro as you good folks suggested and I reported back on the results.
Thank you all for your much appreciated help and suggestions.

PerryHolzman

@lyuma:

On this forum I am technically a homeowner. However, my life has largely been with furnaces and boilers since I was about 16 years old. Mostly very large boilers (size of a house and larger) in industry and power plants since I was 18, with a few years break for College in my late 20's - and I graduated with a Mechanical Engineering Degree with a specialty in controls. For the folks on this forum the largest boiler I worked with was about 250 ft square base and well over 300 ft high, 2750 PSI in the steam drum, 2450 at boiler outlet. 1005 F steam where the steam lines glowed dull red. Nuclear Steam Generators are another interesting boiler as the last plant I worked at was a nuclear power plant.

I gave up my Professional Engineer license last year. But, in my many decades in power and large industrial plants I've inspected and directed repairs of many burners (some of the coal ones so large a small person could crawl through them); and of course many other parts of the boilers and systems in those plants (and in the US Navy I was one of the steam propulsion plant instrumentation and control technicians on our ship).

In the industrial world there have indeed been 2nd degree murder charges filed (and convictions) against owners, managers, and supervisors (not to mention OSHA fines against the companies, etc.) who ignored unsafe combustion and other boiler & piping conditions where people were injured and died. You may feel that is over the top. Sorry. Its all very true. I believe I know a few District Attorneys who would have no problem applying the same standards to a homeowner as well.

Small boiler/furnace explosions and carbon monoxide poisoning kills and injures many people in residential buildings; more each year than in the larger industrial and power plants (in part because everyone knows in the industrial and power plants that criminal charges are a likely outcome if they ignore an unsafe condition).

I have no problem with you doing most of the maintenance on your own boiler, if you know what you are doing - and have the right skills and tools. I do most of the maintenance on mine. But, last fall I had the heating contractor here for the kind of things that I am not set up for that are more than just taking apart cleaning, and replacing some parts. Combustion analysis and should there be a need to adjust the burner on my boiler is one of those things that I do hire the professionals for.

Perry