Roth tank clanking/knocking

geenoc

We had a new roth double wall oil tank installed in August, but just connected to the new tank a week ago when we finally ran out of oil from our old tank. A few days in we started hearing a knocking or clanking noise each time the burner kicked on-- like a sneaker bumping around in a laundry dryer. The noise became more constant and louder over 24 hours, to the point that it was really loud in the 2 bedrooms nearest to the outside tank. We could lay in bed and hear it clearly. Our oil guy who installed the tank came by the next day (he also had to replace a small piece of the connection where a little bump allowed a slow oil leak). The noise didn't occur at all while he was here. Noise was gone for a couple of days and now it's returning, but so far, not as loud yet. It's not happening at the burner which is in our basement; we don't hear it there. I definitely hear it in the tank and in the lines immediately running from tank to our siding. I recorded it last time it happened but can't upload file here. There was also a whirring sound when I had my ear to the tank housing, but the knocking was what really got our attention. Our oil guy wasn't sure what it was- strictly going by our description and my recording- anyone out there familiar with this and know what is the cause? One thing I noticed is it seemed to subside on the days we had warmer winter temps (40 and up). Temps are lower again so maybe that is a factor. If so, why? Isn't the double wall and extra housing (looks like a shiny silver port-a-potty) supposed to be weather resistant/resilient? 

STEVEusaPA

Maybe it's a venting issue. Your burner is pulling a high vacuum and your vent is plugged/partially plugged?
I've never heard any tank, steel or Roth-like, make a noise like that unless a severe vacuum was pulled.
Email me the audio file:
oilman19008@yahoo.com

geenoc

Hi Steve and thanks for commenting.  The noise is picking up and getting to be constant again so I'll be calling our oil guy today and will ask about the vent. How would a venting issue be discovered on these fancy new tanks? Is that generally an easy fix? I do think a vacuum would be logical for the noise but how do you check for that? 
This morning I stood outside and it seems loudest right where the pipes enter the siding. I can hear the knock in the tank too with a little splash/squirt sound with ear to tank. Pipes may seem louder since they are more exposed but does that change the likely source of the problem?  I'll mail the audio from today- the original file was too large even for email.

STEVEusaPA

Take the fill cap off while the burner is running and see if the noise stops. The splashing is probably the oil returning to the tank if it's two pipe.
I listened to your audio tape, sounds like an ekg to me, lol. Just can't make anything out.

geenoc

Our oil guy was just here, thinks it is the return line. Suggested we get a tiger loop for $. Sound right? Yeah, the audio file isn't nearly as clear as what we're listening to day and night in person. Thx for giving it a go. 

geenoc

New question. Roth says they recommend installers run a single line with de-aerator (tiger loop is such) for outdoor tanks, but installers don't have to do that. We ended up with 2 lines. As a plumber, would you expect the customer to pay $ for the part, or would you eat the cost since the return line you installed isn't cutting it. The job was only recently done. I'm on the fence how to move forward and expecting push back if I protest paying. 

EdTheHeaterMan

We don’t talk price on the wall. But yes I would expect the customer to pay for any additional parts not included in the original quote. But I would offer it at a discount under the circumstances. And by the price quoted, that is what happened.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I knew a Tiger loop would be in the mix. Sounds like one of the oil lines is restricted. I am assuming this is an outside tank. No reason this can't work two pipe quietly without a Tiger loop. It's putting a band aid on the real issue.

Now if you said you want a tiger loop to warm up the oil I am fine with that

geenoc

Thanks all. As of now we agreed to pay and have the loop installed- we are not skilled at this. I'd like to hear more from EBEBRATT-Ed. Tank is outside. What would restrict the oil line (you mean inside the line right?)? Would cold temps be a possible cause and if so, does warm up from tiger loop then make more sense? Def don't want to band aid and miss the root cause.

STEVEusaPA

Youngplumber said:

Hey @EdTheHeaterMan and @EBEBRATT-Ed can either one or both of you explain a tiger loop? I wanted to ask the other day, but you guys were fighting about it, and I had flashbacks to when I was 8 and watching my parents fight. Ha ha. They ended up getting divorced which was a good thing, but I know you two won't, as your both very religious.😅

But seriously what is a tiger loop? 

http://westwoodproducts.com/tigerloop.htm

EBEBRATT-Ed

@geenoc

A tiger loop uses only one supply pipe from the oil tank to the tiger loop which is installed at the burner. No return line to the oil tank. Then the oil burner pump is connected to the tiger loop with two oil lines.

Right now your oil lines are carrying the full pump capacity which is much more than the oil burner uses. Going to one pipe with a tiger loop means the oil line only carries the amount of oil you burn. Oil is recirculated between the burner and the tiger loop which causes the oil to warm up which can help with an outside tank with cold oil

Tiger loops have there place (I guess) but should not be used as a band aid to fix some piping problems . If you have a suction leak or a kinked oil line or other restriction in the piping that should be fixed first

LS123

hello all.... many moons ago when I used to live in fairfield county, sales guy said I can take th eoil tank out and put it under sun room... that house was built on a hill, back of the house (walk in / out) and two sides with full size windows... tank was put about 10 plus feet under and out side... i had to call few times middle of the night because tank was so far and at least 10+ feet below from the oil burner.... service guys, especially the oil delivery guys were SO pissed that sales guy had allowed installation of oil talk so far and so below the burner... tiger loop saved all.... while then.. 15 years ago tiger loops were so expensive.. having tiger loop install resolved all the problems of heating oil not making it to the burner... just sharing my experience... I would love to name the franchised, and market dominated fuel company... but its use less to name it....tiger loops do help... if its needed to resolve your heating matters....