Help Choosing a Energy Kinetics Ascent 2000 vs Peerless w/ Coil

MOviefan18

In the process of getting a new boiler. Here are the 2 options.

PETRO has offered me a Energy Kinetics Ascent Boiler for $. I have 3 zones in my house and they say this is a "smart boiler". One of best on market.

My private plumber has quoted me $ for a Peerless BOiler W/ a Coil. He said its very comparable and will do the exact same thing.

My house is 2100 Sq Ft upstairs, and the basement is 1000 Sq Feet.

Any help at all if either price is good/bad/fair...would be very much appreciated.

Robert_25

Pricing is not discussed on this forum per the rules.  

Both boilers will heat your house and hot water, but the Peerless will use more fuel doing it.

HVACNUT

How many people, bathrooms, laundry, etc? Filling tubs or using rain heads?
Was the EK-1 Frontier offered? It's a little more $, but worth it. Its almost 2021, a pin boiler with a tankless coil shouldn't even be an option anymore IMO.
Ask the plumber to explain how a WBV Peerless with a coil will do the exact same thing as the Ascent. In detail. 

STEVEusaPA

There's really no choice for oil except EK. Got to stop with the pinners. I've been in the business 30+ years now and never installed a pinner after I cleaned my first one.

Is you plumber coming back to properly clean your boiler?
Do they readily have the parts to fix it?
Is your plumber going to set up the burner with combustion instruments, does he even know how?
Will he follow best practices for near boiler piping (pumping away, etc., or will he just leave it all like it is.
Not many plumbers know much about hydronics.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@MOviefan18
EK is better if your staying in the house long term and have someone who can service it properly.

Peerless is fine but if you can afford the EK go that route. Peerless if your going to sell the house in 10 years or less

Robert O'Brien

An Ascent will outperform a pin boiler with coil in both DHW production and fuel economy by a substantial margin.

MOviefan18

Apologies for the Prices..i didnt realise. We are just a 3 Person family with a 4 year old. My 30 yrd old Peerless has worked and done perfect for us. But we are adding 1000 sq feet of finished basement, a 3rd shower, and the burner i have is starting to go .

I imagine we will be in this house for the next 3-5 Years....so trying to gage what to do

Roger

Thank you for your question, @MOviefan18 , and thank you all for such fine comments about Energy Kinetics.

We designed the Ascent Combi to fill the market need to replace tankless coil boilers, and also mod cons that are not known for long service life. The core benefits that outperform tankless coil boilers are: Much more hot water, much more consistent hot water temperature, quiet operation, and substantially improved energy efficiency - all in a package without a hot water tank.

We do recommend upgrading to a system with a tank and our Energy Manager control with thermal purge if your home has 2 or more zones or if you have an existing tank type water heater. With your planned upgrade to a finished basement, 3rd shower, and multiple zones, the System 2000 Frontier is a good match for even greater savings and virtually endless hot water.

Both the Ascent Combi and System 2000 Frontier are conventional chimney vented systems. If your chimney is in poor condition, or your home is better suited to sidewall venting, both these models have polypropylene (high grade plastic) vented options with the Ascent Plus Combi (no tank) and the Resolute RT (Display Energy Manager with a hot water tank), respectively. These can be sidewall vented in 3" polypropylene or installed with a polypropylene flexible chimney liner. All systems are available in oilheat, natural gas, and propane.

The investment in your home will pay dividends now with lower fuel bills and more enjoyable quiet operation with more hot water, and will also add value to your home if you decide to move in 3 to 5 years. I would expect either system to easily pay for itself with savings, with substantially greater savings with the System 2000 Frontier and Resolute RT.

As an additional comment, these boilers all use our proven 30-year spiral boiler and are designed with our 2 AM test - can a tech fix it at 2 AM? We build our boilers with nearly all industry standard components so parts are found on most service vehicles. For example, for emergency heat, our Energy Manager control, which has a lifetime protection plan, can be bypassed in less than 5 minutes by moving 3 wires.

Warm regards,
Roger

kieranlavin

Roger said:

Thank you for your question, @MOviefan18 , and thank you all for such fine comments about Energy Kinetics.

As an additional comment, these boilers all use our proven 30-year spiral boiler and are designed with our 2 AM test - can a tech fix it at 2 AM? We build our boilers with nearly all industry standard components so parts are found on most service vehicles. For example, for emergency heat, our Energy Manager control, which has a lifetime protection plan, can be bypassed in less than 5 minutes by moving 3 wires.

Warm regards,
Roger

Apologies for resurrecting this old topic.

I have an EK Ascent Combi boiler. It was installed by a local vendor in September, 2019. In the first ~2.5 years I had the controller go bad. First time was summertime and it was just a nuisance to deal with no hot water for a day but I came to learn that a flashing "250" was terminal. I was terrified last early March when I got home on a Friday night to the flashing 250 and called the installing contractor with the part number they needed. They asked if I was willing to pay an afterhours charge which I said if you have the part and can have a guy install it, yes! The guy came and did the exact same things I had already done (flip the breaker, turn the unit off, etc) I asked if it could be temporarily rigged to run so that my family wouldn't be freezing in the 5 degree forecast lows the next few nights. Nope!

So, Roger, I'm interested in hearing about which 3 wires can be moved to get my unit up and running in a 2AM emergency!

On a side note, after this company put me through 2-3 weeks of hell bringing the controller for a gas boiler, screwed up a valve, and had multiple return trips due to their own incompetence and/or laziness, we fought over billing and what I was willing to pay. Needless to say, I've gone out and retained a different local vendor and have them coming this week to address maintenance as well as what I suspect is a bad Taco 007e circulator preventing my unit from properly maintaining heat

Roger

Thank you, @kieranlavin - sorry to hear that you had such an ordeal. We always want to hear from the servicing technicians if they are not resolving an issue quickly.
The Ascent Combi can operate with industry standard parts, other models can have operating controls bypassed by moving wires. It is possible that the circulator issue you described is the cause of the 250 flashing - please have the service technician contact us. If the 250 flashing was due to a Hydrostat issue, an industry standard Hydrostat could have been installed (not moving three wires); these are readily available in supply houses and are often on service vehicles. See Hydrostat Emergency Wiring on p23 in the manual. The proper control to replace it with full function would be an Ascent Hydrostat which is more fully featured and optimizes the performance of the Ascent Combi. Please ask your prior servicing contractor to return the removed Hydrostat to Energy Kinetics to see if credit is available and for failure analysis, or PM me with their (and your) contact information so we can pursue it with them.
Best,
Roger