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Carlin 70200S or Beckett 7505 primary?

MaxMercy
MaxMercy Member Posts: 170
I have a Beckett 7505 with the external contractor tool for three years and all has been well. My brother was thinking of updating his Honeywell primary to either the Beckett or Carlin controller. He has a Carlin 100CRD if that matters. Are they roughly equivalent or is one more reliable than the other? Thanks.

Comments

  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,115
    I'd use the Carlin. I'm not installing or replacing any more Genysis primaries.
    The only advantage (for me) for the Beckett would be if I had a customer that was too hands on, but that's rare.
    I'd rather have the best on board diagnostics on the control and not need another tool to read it.
    steve
    SuperTech
  • MaxMercy
    MaxMercy Member Posts: 170
    Thanks so much Steve. I think the Beckett has a snap on tool that's permanently mounted so it roughly mimics the one-piece look of the Carlin, but if the Carlin has better diagnostics, that's a different story. I'll pass on your advice to my brother. Would say reliability is roughly equal?
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,115
    edited October 2020
    Heat bad...ground good. Seems like heat will kill them so hopefully the unit is clean, drafts well and is using some post purge.
    Hook up the ground wire.
    The only issue I ever saw with the Beckett was reset button locking up due to a suction phenomenon in the older ones with the plastic sheet covering the entire control. People think the control is bad and replace it when they could've used a razor knife and just cut the plastic around the button-and keep it clean. The other problem I've encountered was the relay on the AC ready kit failing a little too often. But that could've been a heat issue.
    My other issue is I can't seem to get a new contractor tool without buying one for $80. I feel they should give techs one if they ask for it. My last one I got years ago at the trade show.
    I like the Carlin because it uses simple words and flashing words to tell you what's wrong.
    I dis-like one feature on the Carlin. The fact that you can't hold the reset button down to keep the burner off while you're doing other things-like burning off some oil in the chamber, for example. The control with go into pump purge mode. I just wish putting the control into pump purge required a different method, or pushing the reset along with another button.
    steve
    MaxMercy
  • MaxMercy
    MaxMercy Member Posts: 170
    I got mine by trolling ebay. One popped up brand new in the box for $40, so I bought it - I wouldn't have paid $80 for sure. They should have a contractor price for licensed pros like you - say two per company at the reduced rate.

    I haven't really used it though. Out of the box settings of the Genysis were fine as is. Interesting to see the CAD cell reading 140 to 160 ohms when it's running.

    I just did a quick check on ebay, and this guy has 7 left at $50 shipped:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/BECKETT-GENISYS-CONTRACTOR-TOOL-52082/264586007704?hash=item3d9a8e1498:g:uEwAAOSwGPFd6mCU
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 2,188
    Carlin's warranty is 5 years and Beckett is 3 years, the last I checked, I like the Carlin with a little more diag function. I was able to find a "low voltage to ignition transformer" fault code on a problem job. Could not find anything wrong with the nuisance lockout problem for 3 years. I'm not a parts changer, you need to prove to me that the part is defective before I change it out.

    I would ask my techs " after you replace that expensive part and it does the same thing, what will you check next?" usually I would get a less expensive answer, and then I would tell them to check that first.

    After 3 years I suggested a "diagnostic type primary control"
    the next time they hit the reset button they called me and I was able to look at the last 10 starts and found the "low voltage to ignition transformer" Error on the carlin control. The transformer was replaced with an electronic ignitor and never a problem since.

    Go with Carlin for now until there is a better one in a few years!
    Edward Young
    Retired HVAC Contractor from So. Jersey Shore.
    Cleaned & services first oil heating system at age 16
  • MaxMercy
    MaxMercy Member Posts: 170
    edited October 2020
    Thanks Steve and Ed - my brother bought the Carlin.

    I didn't mention but the Beckett Contractor Tool has a software issue that causes the burner to lockout and recycle when viewing the history log. Unplugging the tool from the primary immediately stops the lockouts, and Beckett says powering down the primary will usually restore operation, but since powering down the burner through the on/off switch means the Hydrostat has to go through it's boot routine, it's annoying, plus the problem returns when the burner restarts again. Beckett has a bulletin on it:

    https://www.beckettcorp.com/support/tech-bulletins/genisys-oil-control-contractor-tool/

    Beckett says it's an "occasional" issue but mine does this 100 percent of the time making the history function at least unusable. Maybe if I add a switch between the Hydrostat and the primary I could get it to work. My burner is only three years old and has fortunately been running perfectly, so it hasn't been an issue. I sent Beckett an email yesterday for the heck of it and I'll probably hear back Monday I guess. I'll post back what they say about it.


    mikeapolis
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 1,661
    I really like the Honeywell R7284U. It has all the diagnostic functions that I need. The Carlin seems like a great primary control too. I tried one out on my burner at home, unfortunately the burner motor shorted out to ground a few months later and took out the control in the process. I put the R7284U back on.  

    I'm with Steve on not using the Genisys anymore, there's no need for a control that requires a separate contractor tool. Unlike the other controls I have never had a R7284U fail on me.
    STEVEusaPAMaxMercy
  • MaxMercy
    MaxMercy Member Posts: 170
    Further info regarding the Beckett 7505 locking out when viewing history with the Beckett contractor tool 52082U, Beckett replied to my email.

    The problem is a design error in the software inside the primary, not the contractor tool. Beckett says there's no fix for it but to try a new 7505... Yeah, I'll do that LOL. If I'm going to spend that money for another primary controller that might work, I'll buy the Carlin instead.

    At least Beckett responded to my reply for what that's worth..

    SuperTechSTEVEusaPA
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,115
    Yes Beckett is a fine company, with great customer and tech support. They are sticking with this primary/contractor tool combo. Their website does have info on your specific problem.
    steve
    MaxMercy
  • MaxMercy
    MaxMercy Member Posts: 170

    Their website does have info on your specific problem.

    But no resolution for those of us who bought these controls defective out of the box..
  • PolychromeUganda
    PolychromeUganda Member Posts: 11
    Try the telephone help line tech support. The tech support experts who they push the calls to include experienced heating contractors nowhere near their factory who have time on their hands, so explain your problem and ask for ideas about how to get around it. They are able to resolve some issues that can't be solved another way by having the customer service department send out a new control. I would tend to expect there are some limits on which problems they can wave their magic wand for, and how often, so they may not be able to resolve your problem. If no joy you can always try reducing the cost of replacing the old one the way so many of our fellow Americans do - by selling the old one on eBay. If the old control works correctly except for the software bug accessing history using the contractor's tool then say so in the description so that buyers who want the history display will choose a different offer.
    MaxMercy
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,702

    Yes Beckett is a fine company, with great customer and tech support. They are sticking with this primary/contractor tool combo. Their website does have info on your specific problem.

    I believe the reason for this is for those of us who don't want homeowners to change the control setup. They're less likely to if they have to buy an extra tool.

    We haven't run into this problem. Does it show up only when the contractor tool or display is hooked up?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,115
    edited October 2020
    They put out a bulletin about it, some sort of programming issue they corrected for their newer contractor tools.
    Just don’t know why they wouldn’t mail you a new one with a return envelope to send the old one back (if they even want it back).
    steve
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,702
    So it doesn't make the unit lock out when it's not supposed to under normal use?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • MaxMercy
    MaxMercy Member Posts: 170
    Steamhead said:

    So it doesn't make the unit lock out when it's not supposed to under normal use?


    The control runs fine when the tool isn't connected to it - never shuts down or locks out. The control also runs fine when the tool is only connected but no buttons pushed. At that point, it displays the countdown until the solenoid is engaged and then the running ohms of the CAD cell. I believe it also shows the ignition over lap time.

    It's only when the "view history" is accessed that the control immediately shuts down and recycles over and over. This happens every single time. I thought it might be operator error (me) so I put the tool back in the box and put it aside and pretty much forgot about the problem. Since I only installed the new boiler three years ago, I've never had an issue where the history would be helpful.

    It's only when my brother was thinking about updating his control that I asked the learned folks here about the Carlin and Beckett. At that point, I remembered about the contractor tool acting wonky so I took it out, connected it a few days ago, and immediately experienced the burner shutdown and recycling when the view history was accessed.

    They put out a bulletin about it, some sort of programming issue they corrected for their newer contractor tools.

    The programming issue is apparently with the primary, not the tool. According to Beckett, if I buy a new control, it will have the software bug addressed.