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How and What to Choose for a 3 zone system plus hot water

RoseZ
RoseZ Member Posts: 7
My friend is working on a build in the Pacific Northwest
There is a 100sq ft Turkish Hammam (wanting high humidty warmth), with radiant floor heating and 3 sinks, and a shower.
This area has a skylight, that is covered that will have some holes cut out to let in only SOME light.
and there is a big window in there that will be mortaring in glass blocks. There will be a french door there too.


This heating will eventually heat a concrete table slab.
On adjoining wall is living room area/kitchen with radiant floor heating and sink that needs hot water, 120 sq ft.

She tried to use Slant Fin app, but its only set up to put in feet (no way to put in inches or decimals) to figure out how much heat would escape.

So, she has been told that a tankless heater is NOT the way to go, or a combi boiler.

2 different contractors have told her 2 different things.

What should she get?

The last she was told, she was told to get a 50 gallon tank heater, and a manifold, and all that plus installation is $1500. Is this the way to go?

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE


Comments

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,756
    Total space is 220 sq ft?
  • motoguy128
    motoguy128 Member Posts: 394
    It needs a combi and a buffer tank. I really the boiler would integrate with the DHW and heating system for the main house somehow. That would make it more cost effective overall.
    RoseZ
  • RoseZ
    RoseZ Member Posts: 7
    @HVACNUT yes that is the amount, but the bathhouse area is 100sq ft
  • RoseZ
    RoseZ Member Posts: 7
    @motoguy128 thank you. SPeaking to another contractor, they said they didn't think the Combi Boiler was the right way to go, but is what I found in my research too, so now, I am still gathering information....
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,756
    edited October 2020
    Ductless and electric water heater. 
  • RoseZ
    RoseZ Member Posts: 7
    thank you @HVACNUT but electricity is way more expensive here, and there is natural gas at the location, and its already set up for that. Is there a reason why you suggest the electric water heater?
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 21,874
    It would be nice to get some sort of load calc. Small spaces can fool you, it could be super insulated with under 10 BTU/ sq. ft, or an inefficient shell with excess of 30 BTU.
    Large glass, skylights, in some cases the available square footage is not adequate to cover the load with just radiant.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • RoseZ
    RoseZ Member Posts: 7
    @hot_rod thank you so very much. It was suggested for us to use Slat Finn, but there is no way to put inches or decimals in there.. any suggestions of how we can get that caluclated?
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 21,874
    The load calculators are all based on Manual J. Search around there are others
    https://www.calculator.net/btu-calculator.html
    It would be nice to have a basis to determine your best options

    Plenty of contractors that could help, and a handful of designers hang here.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    RoseZ
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,597
    I got your message, Regarding the heat loss calculation... this is not rocket science. If you measure 6ft. 8 inches, enter 7 for that dimension. If you measure 8ft. 2 inches enter 8 for that dimension. If ALL of your dimensions are in the lower inches (5 and lower) than once in a while use the next higher number to compensate. Bigger is better in this part of the process. As long as you don't go overboard. For this small space, it won't change the sizing by more than 7% and that is an acceptable overage. Your design criteria is more important. Higher humidity and higher temperature than the rest of the house will be a factor that most don't consider in sizing this type of room.

    I'm no expert on this type of "out of the box" design. If you get TOO MUCH heat from your design, you can always lower the water temperature in the radiant loops. If you don't get enough, then you are... Well let's just say THE CREEK without a paddle

    Always wanted to open a paddle manufacturing company near that creek on retirement. Someone beat me to it! https://www.facebook.com/SchittsCreekPaddleCo/
    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
    RoseZ
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,597
    Regarding the type of boiler... Any boiler will make hot water. proper design will get the hot water where you want it. The contractor who is recommending staying away from something means that he had a bad experience and is not interested in repeating his mistake.

    The contractor that is recommending the product is either experienced and has had success... or wants to try something new ON YOU and I wouldn't want to be his guinea pig. Get references to find out which.
    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
    RoseZ
  • RoseZ
    RoseZ Member Posts: 7
    Thank you @EdTheHeaterMan
    Yes, its so out of the box for folks who haven't experienced a bath house like this. Thank you for taking the time to respond. We don't want to be anyones guinea pig or up any kind of creek (great biz idea by the way) =)

    I am still doing my research....
    the direction currently is a 50 gallon Rheem gas tank and a Viaga Manifold....
    If anyone has ideas about that, I will listen...
  • RoseZ
    RoseZ Member Posts: 7
    Seems like I should say... (as I am researching more) that we are using all Pex related eqpt... thats what it is looking like...
    @Larry Weingarten 50 gallon Rheem gas tank and Veaga Manifold, and all Pex lines. I am going to take measurements tomorrow....

    With all that said, and others contributions... what suggestions to get a high humidity volume in the bath house space...
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,597
    Boiling water comes to mind. Moms Kitchen was always in "a fog" on Thanksgiving with each burner boiling a different vegetable.

    That said, there are several Whole House Humidifiers that use steam, but they heat water with electricity.
    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,597
    RoseZ said:

    My friend is working on a build in the Pacific Northwest
    There is a 100sq ft Turkish Hammam (wanting high humidty warmth), with radiant floor heating and 3 sinks, and a shower.
    This area has a skylight, that is covered that will have some holes cut out to let in only SOME light.
    and there is a big window in there that will be mortaring in glass blocks. There will be a french door there too.

    French door on Turkish room in Pacific Northwest. That doesn't sound Kosher. But what do I know, I'm Irish

    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
    RoseZ
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,247
    Hi @RoseZ , I looked at the sizing program Hot Rod put up and it's really simple and fast, though probably only good for getting a ballpark idea of heat loss... which may be enough to zero in on the right heat source.
    About humidity, I see lots of inexpensive plug in humidifiers. It looks like you have msny choices, which could be based on easily available power and how fast you want the space made humid.

    Yours, Larry