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American Radiator Company, Ideal No. 7 boiler

BigMak
BigMak Member Posts: 39
I have an 1946 American Radiator Company, Ideal No. 7 boiler. I was looking for someone with some knowledge of this boiler. I've added a new Beckett AFG burner, with an 1.25 80* nozzle with a F3 retention head. I know its not the most efficient boiler, (probably will replace eventually), it has a hard time keep house warm below 10* outside.

I'm also a be concerned about the amount and placement of asbestos this unit has. Info on this would be greatly appreciated. pic attached.

Comments

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,974
    @Steamhead is good with these, but looks to me like it could use some baffles and a good tuning using a combustion analyzer.

    Is there a barometric damper on it?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    HVACNUT
  • unclejohn
    unclejohn Member Posts: 1,749
    Don't worry about the asbestos unless you goof with it, leave it alone. When it's time to replace the boiler call a company that specializes with asbestos removal and let them deal with it. I would cut the old boilers lose that had asbestos and push it out of the way. The last one I did the home owner made the call to a company and they showed up and wrapped the boiler in plastic and carried it out in one piece.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,309
    It has had its day. Probably only 40% efficient overall. That means 60% of the money you are spending on oil is going up the chimney.
    A modern efficient oil boiler will be more comfortable, more efficient and save you money along the way.
    I don't like the way the air tube is sitting in that chamber. Looks like it's prone to over heating and will burner off. Needs some work.
    Through proper combustion practices, you will at best probably only get to a 1 smoke, any less will require too much excess air.
    Also the 2 upper doors are going to need to be sealed properly.
    And as @ChrisJ mentioned, proper over fire draft controlled with the correct barometric damper is a must.
    steve
    HVACNUTBigMak
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,974

    It has had its day. Probably only 40% efficient overall. That means 60% of the money you are spending on oil is going up the chimney.
    A modern efficient oil boiler will be more comfortable, more efficient and save you money along the way.
    I don't like the way the air tube is sitting in that chamber. Looks like it's prone to over heating and will burner off. Needs some work.
    Through proper combustion practices, you will at best probably only get to a 1 smoke, any less will require too much excess air.
    Also the 2 upper doors are going to need to be sealed properly.
    And as @ChrisJ mentioned, proper over fire draft controlled with the correct barometric damper is a must.

    The one my neighbor had tested in at over 70% efficient. It's a 3 pass.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 1,775
    edited September 2020
    I would recommend replacing the end cone with a F-5 . Its best to stay with in the range , rather than being on the end of one . Looks like it starting to distort anyway. From heat for sure . They need a new chamber. If they caped the chamber when it was replace it would not have cave in like it did .
    I have enough experience to know , that I dont know it all
  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 1,775
    I don't think they could take out that boiler in one piece :smiley:
    I have enough experience to know , that I dont know it all
    EBEBRATT-Ed
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,195
    edited September 2020
    At the bare minimum, it needs a bathtub chamber rated for 1.25 GPH, an amulet to protect the air tube, and an F6 head. Adjust as best as possible using an analyzer and smoke pump.
    The stuff around the chamber is not asbestos. It looks like vermiculite. Which  was typical in the stone age. In some areas it did have small quantities of asbestos. But I think that came later. 
    BigMak
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 3,968
    Asbestos was a contaminant in the deposits that vermiculaite was mined from and that was found in insulation used in houses from the 50's or so, so it is very possible that the vermiculite in there is contaminated with asbestos.
    ChrisJBigMak
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,838
    ChrisJ said:

    @Steamhead is good with these, but looks to me like it could use some baffles and a good tuning using a combustion analyzer.

    Is there a barometric damper on it?

    On that boiler, if the flue passage sizes are what I think they are, I'd use bricks to baffle the boiler. You want to slow down the escaping flue gases and make them transfer more of the heat to the cast-iron. But you do NOT want to restrict the flue passages enough that you create positive pressure in the firebox. And your stack temperature should be above 300°F to avoid flue gas condensation.

    And, what @STEVEusaPA said about the air tube and head sticking into the firebox.

    What size (front-to-back, side-to-side, depth) is that firebox?

    Where are you located?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    BigMak
  • BigMak
    BigMak Member Posts: 39
    Long Island, NY
  • BigMak
    BigMak Member Posts: 39
    edited August 20
    thanks all for advise. I have a situation with this system.

    I have a B&G 107019, 1-1/4, flo valve that makes the clunking noise when system call for heat is turned on. I am considering on replacing, I started to drain for job. halfway through draining, i got the clunking sound, i'm thinking the water was flowing backwards, creating clunking sound. judging by this, water direction, it make noise both directions, I'm thinking the valve is no good. also, the lever is rusted shut, can't turn. and can open bottom to clean either.

    the reason for this is one of these loops tend to fill with air constantly. I bleed multiple times per season.

    there doesn't appear to be any air separator in the system either.




  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 3,968
    What kind of expansion tank do you have?
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 4,195
    edited August 21
    Post some pics of the whole system, from different angles. 
    If it's just one flo valve rattling, there could be air in that loop or the weight in the flo valve is not seating properly. 
    How do you bleed the system? At the rads or are there purge stations at the boiler?
    Pressure is correct?
  • BigMak
    BigMak Member Posts: 39
    edited October 3
    I'm taking the advise on repiping. this is what is my layout. didn't connect everything yet.
    all black pipe is 1-1/4. started with 18 rise, then shutoff valve (wondering if this is appropriate), new temp/press gauge, 18 horizontal run, air scoop, flow control, 3 port header.
    I believe this is all it the correct order.

    will be adding drain valves on the return side.

    thoughts





  • BigMak
    BigMak Member Posts: 39
    i'm connecting the black pipe with both teflon tape and blue monster pipe dope. and tightening connections really tight.

    Can you over tighten black pipe? how do you know when its good enough?
  • Ctoilman
    Ctoilman Member Posts: 105
    Is that the right expansion tank?  Should have a perchance of 12 psi, I'd check it.  Tank looks to be a domestic hot water x-tank.
    If it were me I would have not bought a new flo-check but rather do a new IFC circulator with a built in flo-check.  If you have a 3 piece circulator that would be the automatic choice.
    Temp gauge on the header wi only be accurate when pump is running.




  • BigMak
    BigMak Member Posts: 39
    edited October 3
    @Ctoilman yes, its 12psi for heating. I am replacing one of the circulators with a
    007-F5. Replacing the other 2 would be opening an additional can of worms. what other options for a temp/press are there?




  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 10,282
    Probably underfired looking at the fitting size coming out of the boiler. Maybe that is why it won't heat the house.
  • BigMak
    BigMak Member Posts: 39
    @EBEBRATT-Ed; could you elaborate? 1-1/4 is one of 2 supplies. it appears this is a converted steam boiler, the second output is 2". i don't understand how that effects heat supply when it all gets reduced to 3/4 as it feed baseboards.