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Hot Topics with Hot Rod Episode 4: Maintaining Safe Water Building Systems

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Erin Holohan Haskell
Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 2,324
edited January 2021 in Industry Classes


Join Caleffi and HeatingHelp.com for Episode 4 of Hot Topics with Hot Rod on Monday, August 24 at 7pm CDT.

EPISODE 4: For safety's sake! Maintaining Safe Water Building Systems in the 2020's
Monday, August 24, 2020
7 - 8 pm CDT


Bob "Hot Rod" Rohr will take a look at what's in your water and pipes. Do you have a sneaking suspicion that something is wrong with your water (i.e., is something "bugging" you)? Just how do you minimize risks at home and at your customer's buildings. LIVE demo? It just wouldn't be Hot Topics without it! Want to join in the conversation? We'll open up the mic for you. Watch out! Hot Rod may throw in a give-away or two.

Have a topic-related question? Please post it below.

During each Episode of Hot Topics, we're selecting a charity to support. Tonight we'll tally the attendees and donate $2 per each individual who tunes in. Water Mission, committed to engineering, pipe fitting and installing safe water solutions around the globe, is tonight's donation recipient. BOTH HeatingHelp.com and Caleffi will MATCH up to $500 in donations to the charity.

Register today.

President
HeatingHelp.com

Comments

  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,331
    edited August 2020
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    Hi Bob @hot_rod, I do have a question. Pipe sizing by code results in lines that are far bigger than is actually needed to deliver water. Fixture water usage has been dropping for decades yet pipe size remains the same. This slows flow in the lines, encouraging biofilm and bacterial growth. How do we bring pipe size into the modern world?

    Yours, Larry
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,254
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    Hi Bob @hot_rod, I do have a question. Pipe sizing by code results in lines that are far bigger than is actually needed to deliver water. Fixture water usage has been dropping for decades yet pipe size remains the same. This slows flow in the lines, encouraging biofilm and bacterial growth. How do we bring pipe size into the modern world?

    Yours, Larry

    Excellent question. I'm working with a group of engineers right now that have taken up this challenge. They are hoping to get the codes and sizing criteria updated to realistic numbers.

    They actually have 3 buildings underway that the engineer has signed off on much smaller pipe sizing after they compiled actual datalogged info from numerous buildings to show that actual usage is a fraction of what sizing charts assume.

    I think you know Gary, he has been on this bandwagon for some time.
    I think the group has a more current article on reducing pipe size in buildings.

    Getting the engineering community to believe and buy in to the concept of smaller water piping will be the key, they can be slow to change old "fudge factor" habits.

    https://www.garykleinassociates.com/PDFs/15 - Efficient Hot-Water Piping-JLC.pdf


    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,331
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    Hi @hot_rod , Yes, I've known Gary for nearly thirty years. I've gotten to watch the uphill battle, of trying to bring code into the present. I've worked directly with Gary to do flow testing of all sorts of pipe and fittings to see what really happens. Gary taught me to think in terms of "volume of water in the pipe", to understand how DHW systems will perform. A rather old fudge factor was to size the pipe one bigger, because when we used steel pipe it was known that it would in time fill with rust. The upsizing allowed more time before the pipe needed to be replaced. We then followed that sizing with modern materials... :|

    Maybe Pete Skinner is involved in those three buildings? Pete has been doing some fun appropriate pipe sizing and solar work in New York.

    Anyway, the "bugs in pipes" problem is actually making people sicker than ever and it would be wonderful to find a way to change the rules sooner than later.

    Yours, Larry
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,254
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    I guess the challenge is to provide a small, thin protective layer inside the piping to protect the metals and also eliminate lead leaching. At the same time not too much of a build up to allow bacteria a place to hide and grow.
    Throw in low temperature distribution and the deck starts to stack against the plumber.
    So many new things to consider with bacteria, lead and brass leaching, scalding, grossly oversized piping...
    Super insulating recirculation lines, allowing very small flow rates, a good thing from an energy standpoint, can fail to provide the minimum gpm that typical thermostatic mixers need to stay stable.

    Yes, it's Pete, Gary and John McArthur the group of engineers working on these issues.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 2,324
    edited August 2020
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    Join us tonight! During each Episode of Hot Topics, we're selecting a charity to support. Tonight we're supporting Water Mission, which is committed to engineering, pipe fitting, and installing safe water solutions around the globe. BOTH HeatingHelp.com and Caleffi will donate $2 per each individual who attends. It's easy to contribute! Just tune in and join us.

    President
    HeatingHelp.com

  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 2,324
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    Join us soon at 8 PM (7 PM CDT) to learn more about how to minimize risks at home and in your customer's buildings.

    President
    HeatingHelp.com

  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 2,324
    edited August 2020
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    President
    HeatingHelp.com