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Radiant subfloor panel choice

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xmorganx
xmorganx Member Posts: 23
This may have already been answered- I scanned through some previous conversations, but didn't find my answer and lost patience after page 5 (of 80...). So sorry for any redundance. I'm working on a project with a very small section of radiant floor (in a new addition. The basement will be underslab, but we need to use subfloor panels upstairs). According to the architectural plans the radiant floor is "for comfort only", since there's also forced air in the new part (this is going to be a nightmare for controls, especially since no one seems to want to coordinate), mais bon. I'm sizing to take the whole load just in case, and will ramp it all down to fit. The real question: radiant subfloor panel options? I've used Quiktrak, Warmboard (R and S) and Sunboard in the past. Quiktrak is quiktrak, 5/16ths is an idiotic diameter that no one carries, so you best not make a mistake in your order 6 months before.... So no. Warmboard is fine, but absurdly expensive for what it is, and every other company seems to have some sort of beef with them (which makes me ask why?). Sunboard is also fine, but their delays are long. Google proposes Ecowarm, which I have never heard of and dont know the price point of. I've never used the Rehau version and have no idea what it costs. I would be interested, but not absolutely invested in something Canadian (It's a good selling point (since I'm in Canada), and also often entails fewer Covid related delays) . I can deal with a certain variation on thickness, anything from 5/8 to 1"1/4 would be fine. On this project the biggest issue is shipping delay. I know the general contractor (to be fair, he's not the only player in this case), and he will wait and wait and wait before giving me any sort of confirmation and then suddenly it will be urgent (and magically my fault). Propositions?

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  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
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    What type of room, what’s the floor finish?

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,251
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    Sounds like you biggest issue is availability. I like the Roth panel if it is available near you. I think it comes out of upstate NY.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,034
    edited July 2020
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    We used Ecowarm recently on a small job in Berkeley. I like that you order from them directly, they had everything in stock and shipped quickly. I also like that you can use 1/2" PEX instead of anything smaller so you don't end up with a lot of loops. I believe they are in Oregon.
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,924
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    I have not used a lot of the premade panels, but in my limited experience with them they all suck and are far too expensive for what they are. I prefer to rip 3/4" plywood into strips and glue/screw them to the subfloor then drop transfer plates in the valleys and stomp 1/2" tubing into it. The performance is on par with any premade panel but 1/4 the price, although it does take quite a bit longer.
    BillyO
  • BillyO
    BillyO Member Posts: 277
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    I use climate panel all the time, never once had a problem with availability. Great product. Viega and Uponor same product
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,251
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    Buy or build would depend on your labor rate and who is paying it🤔
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Canucker
  • xmorganx
    xmorganx Member Posts: 23
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    At 100$/ hr per person, the client doesn't really want us to be fabricating anything. I know the panel s are expensive, but a) as a plumber I'm not allowed to install subfloor. B) when you calculate material cost vs time, the panels make sense.
    Small addition with kitchen, dinette and living room. +- 700 sq ft. Finished floor will be hardwood of sorts.
    @hot_rod : I looked at the Roth panels, but am dubious about installing hardwood directly over Styrofoam. @BillyO , I don't know climate panel, but the uponor quiktrak uses 5/16, which I want to avoid. @Alan (California Radiant) Forbes , I sent a request for info to Ecowarm.
    Thanks all for your help, we'll see....
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,924
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    At $100/hr per person, I can build and install my own for just under half the price of the same job in Quik-Trak. The time factor if you aren't a putz is 25% longer at most
    BillyO
  • BillyO
    BillyO Member Posts: 277
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    its all a matter of choice and what you think your time is worth.
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,924
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    I'm not sure why the "disagree" tab is anonymous now, but if someone's going to call me a liar they could at least have the gall to speak up and have an adult discussion about it.
  • Canucker
    Canucker Member Posts: 722
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    GroundUp said:

    I'm not sure why the "disagree" tab is anonymous now, but if someone's going to call me a liar they could at least have the gall to speak up and have an adult discussion about it.

    They may have disagreed with you, but the most likely explanation I've seen for the disagree button being pressed is because it sits under your thumb if you're a right handed person scrolling this site on a mobile browser. I've inadvertantly pressed it many times.
    You can have it good, fast or cheap. Pick two
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,034
    edited July 2020
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    GroundUp said:

    I'm not sure why the "disagree" tab is anonymous now, but if someone's going to call me a liar they could at least have the gall to speak up and have an adult discussion about it.

    I disagree with my wife all the time. If I were to call her a liar, she'd leave me. They're not the same.

    Disagreeing means that you have a different opinion. To call a person a liar insinuates that you're trying to deceive someone and I don't think anyone thinks that of you.
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,924
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    GroundUp said:

    I'm not sure why the "disagree" tab is anonymous now, but if someone's going to call me a liar they could at least have the gall to speak up and have an adult discussion about it.

    I disagree with my wife all the time. If I were to call her a liar, she'd leave me. They're not the same.

    Disagreeing means that you have a different opinion. To call a person a liar insinuates that you're trying to deceive someone and I don't think anyone thinks that of you.
    When the "disagreement" is to a comment solely stating what I can do, that is calling me a liar.

    STEVEusaPA
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
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    I personally see the reason for keeping it anonymous, to avoid fighting. However whenever I have pressed disagree, I have posted to give my reasons.
    I think it promotes a healthy dialog and gives everyone a different point of view.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    GroundUp
  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 2,322
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    Nothing on the reactions panel is anonymous, including Disagree. User icons appear under the post and you can hover over them (click on mobile) to see the username. In this case, @GroundUp, @BillyO disagreed with your post and then wrote, "It's all a matter of choice and what you think your time is worth." It's just a difference of opinion and he's not calling you a liar.

    Now let's get back to talking about radiant panel choices. Thanks.

    President
    HeatingHelp.com

  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
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    Nothing on the reactions panel is anonymous, including Disagree. User icons appear under the post and you can hover over them (click on mobile) to see the username. In this case, @GroundUp, @BillyO disagreed with your post and then wrote, "It's all a matter of choice and what you think your time is worth." It's just a difference of opinion and he's not calling you a liar.

    Now let's get back to talking about radiant panel choices. Thanks.

    Maybe that’s just for you, being an admin. I don’t see icons when someone disagrees.



    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    GroundUp
  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 2,322
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    Thanks, @STEVEusaPA. I'll PM you for more info.

    President
    HeatingHelp.com

  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 2,322
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    Sorry for the misunderstanding here. I see what you mean about the Disagree reaction and we're going to troubleshoot. Thanks.

    President
    HeatingHelp.com

  • BillyO
    BillyO Member Posts: 277
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    really now?
  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 755
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    what problems do people have with Warmboard? I have used it in a few projects with great results. Not cheap ... yes .. but it's not hard to install after some thought and it makes a solid floor