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How do you get this cap off?

Precaud
Precaud Member Posts: 370
edited April 2020 in Plumbing
This is a 2" cap on the end of the wet return. It's so close to the ground, a piece of cardboard won't slide under it. The rear wall is 12" behind it; the floor beam is only 6" away. There's plenty of room to thread it on, but not enough room to even get the wrench teeth on the cap to remove it.

It needs to come off to flush the return. How do you do it?



1950's Bryant boiler in a 1-pipe steam system at 7,000 ft in northern NM, where basements are rare.
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Comments

  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    It looks like a plug. It should turn out. Try a little penetrating oil.
  • Precaud
    Precaud Member Posts: 370
    edited April 2020
    It's a cap on a nipple. This this is what it looks like w/o the wrench. I've been soaking it in penetrating oil all day, the but there's no way to grab onto it.


    1950's Bryant boiler in a 1-pipe steam system at 7,000 ft in northern NM, where basements are rare.
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    You may have to cut a small wedge out of the cap to relieve the pressure on the threads. Then it will unscrew and you can put a new cap on. Be careful not to cut into the threads of the nipple. Use some never-seize on the threads when you replace it.
    PrecaudSTEAM DOCTOR
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,565
    Another approach. Is there any give at all? You might try undoing that union just above the T and seeing if you can move the offending pipe sideways and then up enough to get a wrench on it. But that won't work, of course, if the union won't come apart...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    HVACNUTPrecaud
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    Also, try a smaller pipe wrench. One that you can lay flat enough that you can stand on the handle and push down.
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,239
    edited April 2020
    If you can do what Jamie said, then try to pry up the horizontal run and squeeze a 1x or something underneath.

    Any way you look at it, you don't have much leverage.
    Try to raise that cap high enough to get the wrench jaws at 6 and 9 o'clock. Use another wrench (probably stand on it) to hold back.

    My back hurts just looking at it.
    Precaud
  • Precaud
    Precaud Member Posts: 370
    OK, thanks @Fred , that makes sense. Is the right tool for that a reciprocal saw, or an angle grinder? If the former, any special blade needed?

    @Jamie Hall, thanks, I should try your idea first. That union must come off to flip that pipe anyway.
    1950's Bryant boiler in a 1-pipe steam system at 7,000 ft in northern NM, where basements are rare.
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    Precaud said:

    OK, thanks @Fred , that makes sense. Is the right tool for that a reciprocal saw, or an angle grinder? If the former, any special blade needed?

    @Jamie Hall, thanks, I should try your idea first. That union must come off to flip that pipe anyway.

    If you have to cut, I would use an angle grinder.
    PrecaudSuperTech
  • Precaud
    Precaud Member Posts: 370
    OK, thanks. I have that and the metal-cutting discs here. Trashing that cap is no big deal, it isn't going to be reused anyway. It will be replaced with a reducer and hose fitting for future flushing.
    1950's Bryant boiler in a 1-pipe steam system at 7,000 ft in northern NM, where basements are rare.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,293
    @Larry Weingarten has it right an offset wrench. Maybe you can borrow or rent one. Or just slice the cap with an angle grinder and get it off
  • ch4man
    ch4man Member Posts: 297
    10" wrench with a 24" sideways on the handle???
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,564
    edited April 2020
    Hi, I'd want to get a bigger wrench to put that cheater on. (If I'm reading your question correctly) I think a 14" or 18" with a cheater would do it without risking breaking the wrench. Do you have something big, like a 36" wrench to back this up with? ;)

    Yours, Larry
  • Precaud
    Precaud Member Posts: 370
    I removed an identical 2" cap from a tee on the equalizer today, it took a 24" wrench with 15" cheater to budge it after soaking it overnight. I doubt a 14" would do.
    1950's Bryant boiler in a 1-pipe steam system at 7,000 ft in northern NM, where basements are rare.
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 2,160
    Cut two cuts with grinder or reciprocating saw. Use hammer and chisel. Shouldn't take more then 10-20 minutes.
    Precaud
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,758
    Where was that post with the wrench that clamped on to the pipe and had a gear drive...
  • rick in Alaska
    rick in Alaska Member Posts: 1,463
    I would try tightening it down to see if you can get it to move. If you can, then I would lay the wrench with the handle to the right, and jaws at 9 and 3 o'clock. It will be coming onto the fitting at an angle, but should still grip. You might be able to get it that way.
    Rick
  • Precaud
    Precaud Member Posts: 370
    mattmia2 said:

    Where was that post with the wrench that clamped on to the pipe and had a gear drive...

    Or how about a large socket set shaped for end caps, with 36" ratchet?
    1950's Bryant boiler in a 1-pipe steam system at 7,000 ft in northern NM, where basements are rare.
    mattmia2
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 2,160
    Don't think there are sockets that will fit. There is no guarantee that any wrench will get that cap off. Cut and chisel. Tried and proven.
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 2,160
    You will need two wrenches, if you go the wrench route. You don't want to crack anything else.
  • Precaud
    Precaud Member Posts: 370
    STEAM DOCTOR said:

    Don't think there are sockets that will fit. There is no guarantee that any wrench will get that cap off. Cut and chisel. Tried and proven.

    The socket thing was a joke... wishful thinking. Most likely it will get cut off.
    1950's Bryant boiler in a 1-pipe steam system at 7,000 ft in northern NM, where basements are rare.
  • Precaud
    Precaud Member Posts: 370
    edited April 2020
    I'd say the original installers did not intend to have this cap so close to the floor, there's a 1.5" gap under the other end of the wet return. It looks to me like they cut the return drip pipe or the nipple below the union (which connects to the tee) too long but just used it anyway.
    1950's Bryant boiler in a 1-pipe steam system at 7,000 ft in northern NM, where basements are rare.
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 2,160
    Go on YouTube. Put in Gordon Schweizer He has video or two about removing old fittings. And there are rumors that he knows a bit about steam systems in general.
    PrecaudGordo
  • Precaud
    Precaud Member Posts: 370
    @Gordo 's a gem, no doubt about it...
    1950's Bryant boiler in a 1-pipe steam system at 7,000 ft in northern NM, where basements are rare.
    Gordo
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 2,384
    Hire a gorilla with a strap wrench?
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,758
    chain wrench?

    Was the concrete floor there when it was installed?
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 2,160
    Wrench was turning in the other direction. Not hitting wall. They might have installed with a channellock.
  • Precaud
    Precaud Member Posts: 370
    edited April 2020
    I needed a day off, will have at it tomorrow, after preparing to catch the water that will flow out once the cap wall is cut through... could be dangerous while holding the angle grinder... maybe I'll break that union and suck most of the water out first.
    mattmia2 said:

    Was the concrete floor there when it was installed?

    I'd say yes. There's a patched area nearby where the old wood-fired boiler used to be.
    1950's Bryant boiler in a 1-pipe steam system at 7,000 ft in northern NM, where basements are rare.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,758
    Looking at it again, that wall is sitting on the concrete and it has wood lath so it is maybe 1930's at the latest so it looks like the floor was there in the 50's
  • Precaud
    Precaud Member Posts: 370
    Yep, you nailed it. The house was built in 1930.
    1950's Bryant boiler in a 1-pipe steam system at 7,000 ft in northern NM, where basements are rare.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,262
    If you drilled a 3/8" or so in the end of the cap you could then suck the water out with wet vac.........expect black sludge also.
    Precaudmattmia2
  • Precaud
    Precaud Member Posts: 370
    Thanks for the suggestion, @JUGHNE . That sounds like a less messy, more controllable way to do it.
    1950's Bryant boiler in a 1-pipe steam system at 7,000 ft in northern NM, where basements are rare.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,758
    Or drill and tap it for a 1/2" or 3/4" npt fitting
    PrecaudBillyO
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,594
    Been there done that. Try your torch, heat the cap and use the wrench.
  • Precaud
    Precaud Member Posts: 370
    edited April 2020
    @JUGHNE 's idea worked great. I forgot how easy cast iron drills. Now to get the cap off.
    1950's Bryant boiler in a 1-pipe steam system at 7,000 ft in northern NM, where basements are rare.
  • Alan Welch
    Alan Welch Member Posts: 270
    if you seperate the union, you might be able to offset the 2 parts, which might allow you to raise the cap off the floor.
  • Precaud
    Precaud Member Posts: 370
    mattmia2 said:

    Or drill and tap it for a 1/2" or 3/4" npt fitting

    If your "pipe flip" idea works, that would be a very reasonable alternative, just leave it there...
    Alan Welch said:

    if you seperate the union, you might be able to offset the 2 parts, which might allow you to raise the cap off the floor.

    I haven't had success separating the union yet... I need a cheater for my 24" wrench.
    1950's Bryant boiler in a 1-pipe steam system at 7,000 ft in northern NM, where basements are rare.
  • Precaud
    Precaud Member Posts: 370
    OK, I go the union apart. Two inch iron pipe is interesting - there's no flex, no give!
    1950's Bryant boiler in a 1-pipe steam system at 7,000 ft in northern NM, where basements are rare.
    mattmia2
  • Precaud
    Precaud Member Posts: 370
    HomerJSmith said:

    Been there done that. Try your torch, heat the cap and use the wrench.

    I guess I need to get a torch, my hot air gun isn't doing the job. We have a Harbor Freight here, is one of theirs good enuf for this?
    1950's Bryant boiler in a 1-pipe steam system at 7,000 ft in northern NM, where basements are rare.
    HVACNUT
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,262
    If you lift that pipe were you going to add a tee for the header drip?

    Looking back at your previous pictures. You have a cast iron 45 in that header drip.
    You could "crack" that by holding a 10 lb sledge against one side and wack the opposite side with a 2 lb sledge. That will crack the fitting for removal.

    You could remove that union.
    A cap on the threads where the 45 went into the main drip.
    Then 45 down to your new tee from the drip.
    You need a union in the vertical drop.

    If that drip is only a drip and not the equalizer, you could reduce to even 1" IMO. easier replacement and less costs.

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