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Acid Neutralizer as Condensate Trap

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I have a Munchkin boiler change-out that's in a crawl space with not enough room under the boiler for the p-trap. Has anyone successfully used the condensate neutralizer as the boiler trap?
8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab

Comments

  • Grallert
    Grallert Member Posts: 649
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    I'm not sure if it qualifies as a trap necessarily. I haven't run into the same issue as you mention. I make my own neutralizers using a drum trap filled with media. The condensate enters the bottom and has to perk upwards and out. Seems to act the same way a trap would.
    Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager,teacher and dog walker
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,113
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    Are you installing another munchkin? Over the years I ve ran into a lot of floor mounted munchkin where no one ever thought about removing ,cleaning or replacement the O EM trap unfortunately with out it being a expensive bill . I wouldn’t recommend trying to use a condensate neutralizer as a trap unless it was designed as such . On my own wall hung the trap went so I made my own w some looped vinyl tubing but I had enough room . On the few occasion where I use floor or base units I ll put them on hot water heater stands and cut out a access hole out so the trap can be removed , generally when doing a heat exchanger cleaning I ll remove the trap and connect temp hose just for flushing n cleaning . Getting that assembly off while it’s sitting on the floor is impossible . Peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
    HomerJSmithAlan (California Radiant) ForbesSuperTech
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,467
    edited April 2020
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    If you are worried about sewer gas, a condensate neutralize won't cut it because it drains out the liquid that would be the seal.

    You can put a pvc running trap before the condensate neutralizer especially if you need to keep the trap low.

    https://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-5-409-3-4-PVC-Running-Trap-Slip-x-Slip
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
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    The trap prevents combustion gases from entering the mechanical area and has a deep enough seal to hold back pressure from the blower. I want to make sure the condensate neutralizer water seal can do the same thing.

    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    SuperTech
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,612
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    I would think it would be fine we are not talking much static pressure. I always thought that is why they made the neutraziler that way
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbeskcopp
  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,296
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    @Alan (California Radiant) Forbes i think all new modcon boilers nowadays have built in condensate traps inside there cabinets so there isn’t a need for a P-trap outside of the boiler.
    E-Travis Mechanical LLC
    Etravismechanical@gmail.com
    201-887-8856
    Paul Pollets
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
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    @EzzyT The problem is that the trap extends below the bottom of the boiler.


    @EBEBRATT-Ed I always thought they made them that way to give the marble chips time to neutralize the condensate.
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,296
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    oh ok, I do know if you modify that condensate trap on the boiler you’d void warranty. What is the total height of the crawl space that the boiler is located in? Does the new boiler have to be a condensing boiler?
    E-Travis Mechanical LLC
    Etravismechanical@gmail.com
    201-887-8856
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,037
    edited April 2020
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    The only boilers we can install here in the Bay Area are high-efficiency condensing boilers.
    I want to use the same flue and air penetrations as the Munchkin (24" high) for the new, IBC HC boiler (26½" high) and the Munchkin is close to the dirt. Worst case is that I dig a hole in the dirt for the trap.
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,467
    edited April 2020
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    If you dig a hole in the ground, you still need a slope for the condensate to drain. My best solution would be to dig a hole in the ground for the boiler trap, condensate neutralizer, and a pump and drain the condensate neutralizer into a condensate pump and pump the fluid to a drain.

    https://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-CP-22LP-Condensate-Pump-Low-Profile-120V
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,440
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    I would talk to IBC in NJ or BC. They are pretty responsive. They also have different size traps depending on the unit. The HC/DC125 units are 2 times longer than the HC 50. Maybe you could use that one.
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,656
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    You still need the boiler condensate trap. Or you'll have serious combustion and vent issues. There is a combination neutralizer and pump available: https://neutrasafe.com/2018/10/27/nsp-50-condensate-neutralizing-pump-now-available/
    Alan (California Radiant) ForbesSuperTechHomerJSmith
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
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    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,440
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    I look forward to pix of the finished product w/ the new HC.
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
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    We managed to squeeze the new boiler in with the flue just below the top plate and the condensate trap in the dirt.





    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    Grallert
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,440
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    Wow that was tight...