Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

No water hot side 1990ish Delta shower valve

Options
weedhopper
weedhopper Member Posts: 59
So our upstairs shower with a 1990ish shower valve produces no water on the hot side. Rather than rebuilding the cartridge like on the You Tube videos I would rather pull the unit out and replace with new if possible. I think this baby is past it’s lifespan anyway. I have to turn off the water to the house to do this so I need to be sure I don’t screw it up and be without water overnight.

Can I just pull this cartridge out and replace with new ? From what I read getting that knurled nut off will be the major battle. There is no model number I can see but the faceplate says “Scald Guard”

Thanks for your help !

Comments

  • weedhopper
    weedhopper Member Posts: 59
    Options
    A clearer shot with flash.
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Options
    There are integral stops on the hot and cold side and you should be able to isolate the valve to replace the parts. Sometimes those stops are frozen and sometimes they don't completely shut off the water.
    Looks like you're in a hard water area and yes, the knurled nut may be hard, difficult, very difficult, impossible to remove.
    Can't really tell if you just want to replace the parts or the entire valve, but replacing the parts will make it just like new. You can even replace the valves on the stops.
    Good luck!
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    mattmia2
  • george_42
    george_42 Member Posts: 121
    Options
    Delta # RP1991 is the cartridge, you may have to take a torch to the nut and then gently tap with a sharp chissel
    rick in Alaska
  • weedhopper
    weedhopper Member Posts: 59
    Options

    Is this the shutoff stop ? There is one on hot and cold, and frozen, at least with a screwdriver. I am not going to be breaking stuff I hope. Baby steps.

    I never use that shower but my wife has a way of jiggling the valve to make it work. So it ‘s not an emergency. It would be nice to isolate that valve and work on it without having to worry about water to the whole house.
  • george_42
    george_42 Member Posts: 121
    Options
    best to shut the main house valve off if there are no shut offs in a panel behind faucet
  • weedhopper
    weedhopper Member Posts: 59
    Options
    OK. I am thinkin that I will leave this to a plumber. If I had the skills and the nerve I would take that T completely out and replace the whole thing. The terror lies in not having water to the whole house. Maybe a plumber could squeeze some shutoffs into that space. There is room to reach in. That wall backs up to the sink so removing the vanity would give him access to the pipes. That’s my thought now.

    Thank you for all your help !
    BillyO
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,750
    Options
    If you're careful you could split that nut with a dremel and replace it if it is stuck. It doesn't seal, it just holds the cartridge in so if you nick the threads a little it will still work just fine.

    You could use a large screwdriver with a square shaft and an adjustable wrench on the shaft to get the service stops loose and turn them off. one you loosen them or have them replaced if you operate them every couple years they won't freeze up again.
  • BillyO
    BillyO Member Posts: 277
    Options
    make sure you already have retaining nut before you cut old one off if that's the route you choose. may not be a part local supply house has in stock
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,703
    Options
    I will not touch those internal stops, but to each their own. Just go to the water meter/whatever main valve you have and shut that. Don’t forget to take the pressure off.

    You’re getting into medium duty plumbing, if you’re kind of handy you can do this, if you try it and can’t figure it out, then you’ll have to screw those internal stops, eight times out of 10 they will work.

    If you get the thing apart, you should grab a bucket and blast water through the valve. Might take two people and a couple cell phones.
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • weedhopper
    weedhopper Member Posts: 59
    Options
    Ya, I know I could do it. The penalty for a screw up is no water in the house at all. My wife got it to work but something is wrong. So once the virus thing calms down I will get a plumber.

    I can install shut offs in the basement as everything is exposed. I did that with the kitchen supply lines , with shark bite valves and fittings. I can solder too so I can install valves in the basement.

    Aside from the cost is there a reason not to use Shark Bite on these lines? Sure makes it easy !
    Thanks for all your replies
  • weedhopper
    weedhopper Member Posts: 59
    Options
    And yeah GW I was thinking about flushing whatever crud is in the lines. Goes right into the tub.

    Great minds think alike ...
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Options
    If you know how to solder, it's cheaper and better in my opinion than Sharkbite.
    Oh, the luxury of a stand-up basement. Do you have radiant heating? If not, we can walk you through it. : )
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    rick in Alaska
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,077
    Options
    Those stops could could be soaked with a little penetrating oil a couple days in a row.
    Then a 6 point socket to just loosen the packing nuts about an 1/8 of a turn. Then gentle taps on the screw slots with small hammer/punch. They then might rotate.
    rick in Alaska
  • weedhopper
    weedhopper Member Posts: 59
    Options
    Stops are shut off valves? Why the heck didn ‘t make that removable with a socket instead of a flat head screwdriver slot ?

    Actually Alan the basement is completely finished, sheetrock walls and ceilings. A center chimney cape so our wildly inefficient Slant Fin boiler heats the basement well.

    I took a lot of razzing about our trusty Slant Fin in the heating forum here when I had Tiger Loop questions, LOL.

    So yeah, stand up basement, two bathrooms above each other, standard layout.

    I like doing this stuff, it’ just terrorizing when it’s my own house!
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,703
    Options
    I’m sure shark bite is great stuff, yet most pros wince at the thought though. Do what you gotta do

    When you get to the valve, be careful not to oval ize the metal fastener ring-nut. Gotta gently squeeze and turn. Grip it too much and you’ll inadvertently squash the Ring
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • weedhopper
    weedhopper Member Posts: 59
    Options
    Oh wow, you are almost my neighbor. I am in Avon Ct.
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,009
    Options
    Your instincts of replacing the valve are correct. When they look like your valve, I always have a replacement valve at the ready. Along with the replacement parts. I do that because over the years, that particular shower valve might get damaged while taking it apart for repair . And you may not know of the damage until you turn the water on and find that the valve body has become warped and the repair parts are nooot quiiiite fitting properly into and on the valve. It can potentially leak or not function properly.
    If you decide to do it yourself, install shut off valves first. This will take the sense of urgency of off you and buy you some time, lessoning the time the water will need to be off to the house.
  • weedhopper
    weedhopper Member Posts: 59
    Options
    Ya. I will get shut offs installed then go for the shower. Losing one shower or even the whole bathroom which is one run from the basement is no big deal.

    Nice quarantine project.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,750
    Options
    i would not leave sharkbites unattended. The ultimate seal is just a plastic ring which will eventually rot. If you know how to solder I would do that.

    Could grip the wring with a strap wrench, it would be difficult to warp the body using that.
  • weedhopper
    weedhopper Member Posts: 59
    Options
    Right. They say never use them in an enclosed wall. The basement is open ceiling in that area. A flood would run right to the sump pump. Going to solder some pipe for a refresher course anyway. Not a chore for me.
  • george_42
    george_42 Member Posts: 121
    Options
    do yourself a favor and put in a new valve, either delta or moen
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,788
    Options
    > @mattmia2 said:
    > i would not leave sharkbites unattended. The ultimate seal is just a plastic ring which will eventually rot. If you know how to solder I would do that.
    >
    > Could grip the wring with a strap wrench, it would be difficult to warp the body using that.

    What about propress?
    And the Mueller pack joint connections I'm going to be burying 4' down outside? They all use rubber.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,750
    Options
    Propress has a mechanical connection and is crimped to the pipe, it is likely to be a small leak. At least the types of sharkbite i have seen, the o-ring is gripping the pipe, if that fails it can slide off of the pipe. If an underground connection fails it is unlikely to cause much damage other than the issue with the pipe itself. (if it is a Dresser type coupling the synthetic rubber is very thick and unlikely to rot all the way through.)
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,788
    edited April 2020
    Options
    > @mattmia2 said:
    > Propress has a mechanical connection and is crimped to the pipe, it is likely to be a small leak. At least the types of sharkbite i have seen, the o-ring is gripping the pipe, if that fails it can slide off of the pipe. If an underground connection fails it is unlikely to cause much damage other than the issue with the pipe itself. (if it is a Dresser type coupling the synthetic rubber is very thick and unlikely to rot all the way through.)

    Aren't shark bites the same as air brake connectors using a bunch of tiny metal teeth to hold the pipe in? I doubt the O ring is holding it on.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    rick in AlaskaGrallert
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,703
    Options
    Yes Chris, they certainly aren’t going to pop off. Like all things “trades” we tend to nay say what we don’t fully understand
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    SuperTech
  • psb75
    psb75 Member Posts: 845
    Options
    Doesn't Sharkbite® work on the "Chinese finger-trap" principle?
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,750
    Options
    The small ones I have seen just used an o-ring. The larger diameter ones might have metal teeth. Either way that o-ring is going to eventually fail(I don't know how propress addresses this, I assume they are just saying your copper pipe is now good for 40 years instead of maybe 100+). Remember the quick connect linesets?
  • weedhopper
    weedhopper Member Posts: 59
    Options
    psb75 said:

    Doesn't Sharkbite® work on the "Chinese finger-trap" principle?

    Yes. But they can be disconnected with a tool.

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,788
    Options
    This video shows a cutaway of a sharkbite, at least what looks like a 3/4" one.

    https://youtu.be/1E8X1VawLeE
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    mattmia2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,750
    Options
    Maybe what I was dealing with was a knockoff. It was plastic 1/4" and 3/8" tube size.
  • weedhopper
    weedhopper Member Posts: 59
    Options
    This is a shutoff. They just slide right on. It’s so easy it seems that I am doing something wrong.
    GWGrallert
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,703
    Options
    That’ll work 😀
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    Intplm.
  • rick in Alaska
    rick in Alaska Member Posts: 1,457
    Options

    Personally I don't see the difference between Propress and Sharkbite styles as far as how long they last. I still don't trust either one, but have used quite a few sharkbites when I didn't have much of a choice, and have never had a problem with them. I still have a problem with o-rings over time, especially knowing things like dielectric unions, circ pump gaskets, and other gaskets that are rated for hot water, crumble over time and leak horribly. But, I do know they have been on the market for a while with minor issues so.......
    Rick
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,703
    Options
    Back when I was a kid I was working with a crusty old plumber (probably about my age now😀, fifty something I guess), re piping an old house. We yanked the galvanized and piped with copper.

    The crusty man turned the water on the the house. There may have been a leak or two, don’t recall. But here’s what I’ll never forget:

    Me: um err this 90 over here wasn’t soldered.

    Grumpy: (hissing like he has a fool for a helper)..... hmmm well let’s fix it

    Anyway, sorry for the drama. It’s my firm belief that no o ring is “needed” (as in I don’t think the joint will fail due to its failing o ring) and that the pro press will last forever.
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com