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Granby DWT with tigerloop install - OSV placement

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imintrouble
imintrouble Member Posts: 6
I have a question about the placement of firomatic valves. I'm installing a Granby Double wall tank connecting it to a Riello F40. The feed from the tank will be 1/2" OD and run overhead for 10' then through a cinder block wall and down 6' then over 2' to the tigerloop - (total run ~24'). the original plan was to run 1/2"OD coated copper directly from the tank to the firomatic valvel connected to the tiger loop.

i've been reading conflicting things about the placement of a second firomatic valve at the tank. honestly, this make sense considering the purpose of the valve but i'm just not certain if it's required. also, are there requirements for the placement of a firomatic valve as far as orientation (horizontal, vertical, upside down, obviously accessible). if yes, are flare fittings recommended for all fittings here? i'm trying to leave as little possibilities for vacuum loss here considering the overhead line placement and the riello pump

also, expansion loops of tubing - is it advisable to leave a loop of tubing at the tank and one that the burner?

i'm assuming you all recommend a ball valve here too for maintenance, correct? placement right before the tigerloop and firomatic valve by the burner?

any other suggestions on this build would be greatly appreciated - thank you in advance.

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  • imintrouble
    imintrouble Member Posts: 6
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    I was too wrapped up in reading on here and think i posted to the wrong board - moderator - can you please put this in the oil heating or other appropriate board. thank you!
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
    edited April 2020
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    If the tank is outside, then the first valve needs to be right inside the structure where the oil line enters the house (and a good place for the filters).
    I'd enter the house, expansion loop, firomatic, double filters, then OSV, then continuous jacketed oil line to burner, another firomatic.
    You should put another loop for expansion at the burner, but I never do 2. 99.9% of all I've ever seen didn't even have one.
    Any reason why you're not using 3/8"?
    Orientation doesn't matter, HAS to be all flare fittings, no compression.
    If you're using firomatic valves (not firomatic checks) you won't need, nor should you have, any ball valves.
    If all your flares are tight and you perform a power vacuum bleed, you won't need the tiger loop.
    If you're using the tiger loop, don't forget the bypass plug in the return port on the fuel pump. Most tigerloops are supplied with a firomatic for the inlet of the tiger loop, so you obviously wouldn't need one at the burner.
    That's code, even though I've ranted a few times about firomatics.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • imintrouble
    imintrouble Member Posts: 6
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    Thar was very helpful thanks. I should have mentioned this was an inside install. The cinderblocks made that sound confusing. Theres 2 different basements to the house with a small doorway connecting them. Does this mean I should put a fireomatic on the vertical run coming out of the tank after an expansion loop or does that not apply here.

    I decided to do 1/2 because I did a lot of research, much of which conflicted and seemed more like an opinion, and they seemed to err on the side of 1/2to prevent flow issues. I could be wrong though but I thought that the tigerloop would solve any vacuum issues associated with 1/2.

    All flare is definitely the plan.

    I got the tigerloop with the integrated filter. This will be at the burner obviously. You still recommend 2 filters there? I dont think with my vertical line coming off the tank I could do it a filter at the tank. It also may be something that would be forgotten during maintenance since there is one at the burner.

    Firomatic valves definitely so thanks for the clarification on a ball valve.
  • SuperTech
    SuperTech Member Posts: 2,185
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    Double filters never hurt. A typical general filter at the tank is sufficient for keeping sludge out of the line, a tigerloop ultra at the burner will protect the nozzle and strainer. I don't do loops, but some local codes require them.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
    edited April 2020
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    If the tank is indoors, I would do a loop coming out of the tank, then a firomatic, general filter, osv. Then firomatic right at the inlet of the tigerloop. The first filter can be mounted to the wall above the tank with a bracket.
    Less air to be removed with a 3/8". I'd only do 1/2" if 3/8" neared or exceeded the tables published by the fuel pump manufacturer.
    I'd also seriously recommend using a push/pull pump to pull the oil to the tigerloop. Then close the first firomatic, connect the oil line to the tigerloop, open the valves, run/bleed/purge.
    If you don't get some oil past the first filter/osv, you risk ruining the pump by letting it run dry.
    If you don't have a push/pull pump, you can get a gallon of fuel, a small length of line with a flare, hook that into the inlet of the tiger loop to fill the bowl and filter. Fill the first filter too. Then hook everything up and run/bleed/purge.
    On a pure gravity job, I'd remove the oil line right after the OSV, depress the button on the OSV, and hold it until fuel flows into a small pail, let button go. Also a good way to see if the OSV is holding. Then reconnect the oil line and do a power vacuum bleed.
    I don't really see the need for loops, especially the one at the tiger loop, if it's connected with flex connections.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    SuperTech
  • imintrouble
    imintrouble Member Posts: 6
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    Great info. Thank you. Exactly what I'm going to do then. I planned on investing in a push pull pump for this or future issues with losing prime. Would this one be sufficient?
    http://www.westwoodproducts.com/product_group_t2_t30.htm

    The only item I dont have besides the pump yet is the osv. Any particular one you recommend?

    Thanks again
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
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    You should only need a pump once. Maybe you can borrow one.
    Suntec is fine.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,861
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    With the Tiger Loop you might not need a hand pump at all.