Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

No More Error Messages

Options
or "No More Finicky Boiler Problems".

We can't install atmospheric boilers here in the Bay Area; only high efficiency, condensing boilers. And I miss them. Plug 'N Play they were for the most part. Comparatively few problems. Maybe a bad vent damper, spill switch, but more often than not, a flame rollout switch because the guy (dead man? deserves it) that installed it didn't know about condensation.

So, 21st Century condensing boilers. We're going to save so much money, honey. Only, this isn't the way I expected it. The boiler is in error mode and no longer heating; E04 or E09 or PR zero. We're saving so much money because the boiler won't fire! Call the heater guy and we'll make up the difference.

The guy that was doing my job 100 years ago had no idea what was coming.

I can no longer promise a system that won't be troublesome.
8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab

Comments

  • rick in Alaska
    rick in Alaska Member Posts: 1,458
    Options
    I hear you. I have been chasing conversion burners that are shutting down randomly. What I have been finding is the gas valves are failing when they get warm, and then working again after cooling down. I have been having to just install a new valve and let it go for a few days to even figure out if it is the gas valve or the primary control. Riello gas controls don't seem to be bulletproof like the oil ones are.
    I just wish our wholesalers stocked them so we didn't have to make a long distance order clear across the states to get one. Not good when everyone is out and it is single digits out. I guess I am just going to have to keep more in stock myself.
    I just had a very weird Triangle Tube boiler that was a giving me an error message which lead me to believe it was a bad control. Friday evening and not a single supplier or rep had one. A million dollar home with no heat for a few days while one is ordered is not good. Luckily my stubborn technician skills figured it out and we got it working.
    But, yeah, there is a lot to be said about old school simplicity.
    Rick
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,963
    Options
    100 years ago they were saying the same things about the first oil burners and stokers and blowers.
    Solid_Fuel_ManIntplm.
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,389
    Options
    Hi @Alan (California Radiant) Forbes , I'm wondering where the future will be for heating in the relatively mild SF bay area. Cities are banning future gas hookups and no doubt, they will find a way to get rid of fossil gas entirely... possibly requiring being disconnected on sale of the house/building. Might it make sense to look into heat pumps now for future-proof heat? Will heat pumps be less trouble than condensing heaters? Just wondering out loud. ;)

    Yours, Larry
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,486
    Options
    Berkeley banning gas in residential and up to 3 story will eliminate some of those those mod con issues. Pretty easy to troubleshoot and keep an electric boiler going :)

    And a simple element and snap disc control, electric water heaters solve the buffer tank issue.

    I wonder that a high tech A2WHP will be less problematic than a mod con. Still a lot of mechanical and electro-mechanical parts. plus refrigerants!
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,511
    edited January 2020
    Options
    Loons are running California and, Alan, they are just going to make your life more difficult. 2 examples: Proposition 65 requiring cancer warning on product sold in California. Now every corporation puts the warning on any and everything so as not to be hounded by a cadre of lawyers, making the warning frivolous. Secondly, the State Fire Marshall required all houses sold in California to have 110V smoke detectors with battery back up. The Real Estate industry was aghast. It wasn't a problem if you didn't have drywall. It could be done easily. It had to be changed to battery only required and I could go on and on.

    The Mayor of that turd on the west coast, Los Angeles, noticed upon the city raising taxes on business that the businesses were fleeing to outlying cities to escape the increase. The Mayor wanted to pass a law forbidding their exodus. Loons, I tell you and that's coming from a former Californian.
    Leon82Henry
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,109
    Options
    IIRC, saw a story on pest control in a major CA city.
    It was catch ( from your basement) and release (to the outdoors) of rats......or is this just an Urban Legend?
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,486
    Options
    Crazy laws in Ca no doubt.

    Actually Prop 65 became law in 1986, and dual voltage smoke detectors are required in most areas. Even in the smoker capital of the world, my state of Missouri.

    Keep in mind California is the 5 largest economy in the world, larger than most countries, so we don't want everybody to leave.

    It leads the nation in defense technology, manufacturing, bases and the all critical drone development and manufacturing, best not to sell California back to Mexico :)
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,511
    edited January 2020
    Options
    "Keep in mind California is the 5 largest economy in the world, larger than most countries, so we don't want everybody to leave."

    Hell, I don't want anybody to leave and we should put a fence on the border to keep them all in. Californians are a virus. Where ever they go they infect their new communities with their sordid ideas. 600,000 + people are fleeing California every year because of higher taxes and deteriorating environmental concerns.

    Maybe we should just put a big C on their foreheads so we know who were dealing with...Naw, they'd just wash it off.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,486
    Options

    "Keep in mind California is the 5 largest economy in the world, larger than most countries, so we don't want everybody to leave."

    Hell, I don't want anybody to leave and they should put a fence on the border to keep them all in. Californians are a virus. Where ever they go they infect their new communities with their sordid ideas. 600,000 + people are fleeing California every year because of higher taxes and deteriorating environmental concerns.

    Maybe we should just put a big C on their foreheads so we know who were dealing with...Naw, they'd just wash it off.


    Looks like a break even, in 2019 numbers moving in vs out?

    Another study, shows the folks leaving are mostly conservative going to Arizona and Texas. With the ideas you suggested? :)
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,511
    edited January 2020
    Options
    That is a singular poll by a singular mover, no statistical relevance. Having worked for United Van Lines and many other movers while in college, I can say business and military moves were the order of the day.

    Hertz and U-Haul probably have more statistical relevance. Ya! More people are probably moving into California that aren't counted, all those homeless looking for a warmer climate pushing shopping carts.

    Shades of the Dust Bowl with all those Okie's. At least the Okie's had principles and morals, not drug induced reprobates.

    Get a grip, Homer, you're becoming unglued.
    luketheplumber
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,486
    Options

    That is a singular poll by a singular mover, no statistical relevance. Having worked for United Van Lines and many other movers while in college, I can say business and military moves were the order of the day.

    Hertz and U-Haul probably have more statistical relevance. Ya! More people are probably moving into California that aren't counted, all those homeless looking for a warmer climate pushing shopping carts.

    Shades of the Dust Bowl with all those Okie's. At least the Okie's had principles and morals, not drug induced reprobates.

    Get a grip, Homer, you're becoming unglued.

    Yeah, why so angry.

    Your suggesting the homeless are being counted? and as income in excess of $150,000

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 2,346
    Options
    Let's get this thread back on track. @HomerJSmith, our number one rule here is to be respectful of others and your comments are out of line.

    President
    HeatingHelp.com

  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,646
    Options
    I do question the reliability and longevity of heat pumps. As far as environmental friendliness, well we all know that basically 100% of that 410a that comes from the factory in China gets released into the American atmosphere.

    But we are not burning as much gas on site. That's what people smarter than me say is good. The northeast is just so far removed from the west coast, simply cannot relate to some things.
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,511
    edited January 2020
    Options
    I'm sorry I wasn't politically correct and offensive. I didn't criticize any person on this site nor would I ever. If I criticized anyone it was the comment about me and was intended to be somewhat humorous. I am not angry and I am sorry you mistook it that way.

    I have paid a lot of attention and time to the problems in California, which are many, and I saw the direction that California was headed 40 years ago which is why I left the state at about that time.

    Regrettably, my concerns are bearing fruit, so to speak. I have lots and lots of relatives that live in California which I visit and some who have chosen to migrate to Texas, Nevada and Tennessee and friends that left for Washington state all for a better life style.

    Have you been to Irvine or Anaheim, Los Angeles, San Francisco reciently, I have.
  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 2,346
    Options
    Thank you, @HomerJSmith.

    Now let's get back to discussing boilers.

    President
    HeatingHelp.com

  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,389
    Options
    Hello, For those of us not too far from Sacramento, SMUD will be putting on a two day workshop on heat pump water heating. They should be rolling out some fun stuff, like 120 VAC water heaters that can replace gas fired units. Clearly, in coastal CA where @Alan (California Radiant) Forbes and I work, these could have application for space heating as well. Here's a link: https://reg.learningstream.com/reg/event_page.aspx?ek=0059-0013-8747e67b5b35447fa74bc192f46c76d6

    Yours, Larry
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes