Loving our new Energy Kinetics System 2000...and a Question

Mainiac

Our 26 year old Burnham V7 developed a crack three weeks ago. Of course it was on a Friday afternoon so I had to wait over the weekend before I could contact companies for replacement estimates. The company that come over and found the crack gave me a quote for another tankless boiler and a Buderus G115 with an indirect tank. The Buderus setup was $2000 more but they highly recommended it over the other one. I was suffering from sticker shock as overall I didn't realize how expensive it would be to replace my boiler.

Over the weekend I talked to two of my brothers. One said to definitely go with the Buderus. The other one mentioned this local company he saw advertising the System 2000 a few years back. I did some research on the System 2000 and was very impressed with it. I actually spent a fair amount of time on this site reading threads about it and comparing it to the Buderus and other boilers. I was especially impressed by seeing the president of Energy Kinetics along with some of their techs responding to threads.

On Monday I started contacting some companies. I started with the one my brother mentioned sold the System 2000. I called constantly for hours only to be greeted with voicemail no matter which option I chose from the menu. I finally just left a message which was never returned. I called Energy Kinetics to get some other local dealer names. After a brief message saying the call may be recorded for training purposes I was immediately talking to someone. I got some dealer names and started calling. That's when I found out it wasn't a good time to be looking for a new boiler. Most companies were installing out to early/mid December and would take a week or more just to get someone to come out for an estimate. I was finally able to find a dealer who could come out on the Wednesday. I also got one other company to come out on Wednesday but they didn't offer the EK systems. The non EK company came in at $4000 higher than the original quote for the same Buderus system. The company that did EK systems quoted a Buderus at $500 less than the original quote. The System 2000 was only $200 more than their Buderus quote. I was quite happy with that so I signed a contract with them.

I was still a little nervous as a lot of the stuff I read on here said to be sure you research the installer as that is the most important part of any new heating system purchase. I really didn't have much choice but I did feel comfortable with the Energy Adviser who gave me gave me the System 2000 quote. The installation date was set for this past Tuesday and Wednesday. Tuesday the installer showed up and started prep work. Movers came with the System 2000 boiler and water tank. He unpacked them and did more prep work and was here for around three hours. He was great and definitely put my mind at ease. He came back Wednesday morning and installed the whole thing by himself. I was amazed he did it all alone. It looked fantastic and after all was tested to be working properly he left after a total of eight hours.

We love our new System 2000. It is so quiet compared to our old boiler. Unless it is totally quiet in the house we don't even know it's running and even then only if you are over it's location in the basement. The Energy Manager is awesome. I love being able to see exactly what the boiler is doing. The energy recover is great too.

I do have one question. When we finished testing each zone twice to make sure all was working well there was this sloshing sound coming from the boiler. You can only hear it when the burner isn't running. The installation guy said it's air in the system and it should work it self out after a while. He did put on an air bleeder valve that I could hear releasing air when the system first started up. It's only been a couple days and the sound is still present. It doesn't appear to be causing any issues as the system seems to be working fine. How long should I give it for the sloshing sound to go away?

STEVEusaPA

That's a nice looking job. EK should pay you for your testimonial, but they probably have hundreds just like it.
Make sure you recommend that installer to your friends, and show them your install.

The only thing I can't see in your pic is the expansion tank and the air eliminator.

By the way are you hearing it after the burner shuts off and the manager is purging heat into the storage tank.

Roger

Thank you for sharing your detailed and excellent experience, @Mainiac – we’re thrilled to hear that you love your System 2000 and that your installing contractor is so professional and competent!

Please PM me with your contractor’s name or call in to (800) 323-2066 to let us know and we can reach out with our tech services team to find out more about the sound you describe so we can help with further steps if necessary.

Thank you for your kind comments as well, @STEVEusaPA !

Roger

Mainiac

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the reply. The expansion tank is behind the boiler. I recall him mentioning that EK recommends them above the boiler but he said they are a pain to change when hanging high up so he put it lower. The air eliminator is on the right. If you follow the rightmost zone up it is behind the bend in the pipe. I've put pictures of it and the expansion tank for reference.

I hear the sloshing sound when the burner isn't firing but the zone(s) are circulating.

Ron Jr._3

Very nice testimonial. And the install looks fantastic ! You hired a gem to do the work.

I've heard the same sloshing sound from the EK here and there. I actually recorded it. I'll see if I can find it and upload it here. It eventually went away after repeated purges of the heating zones.

I'm sure the installer did it , but the boiler itself is supposed to have a slight downward pitch from back to front. To get rid of any air in the boiler. Just one thing to confirm.

HVACNUT

In the first pic, the air separator and 3/4 Hi-vent is at about 7 o'clock from the first zone valve. I don't know what the one in the ceiling is for. Maybe tighten the cap on that one.
As we know, water contains oxygen, so it might take some time for the system to rid itself of all the air.

DanHolohan

I'm as happy with mine. Silent reliability. It's like having a ninja in the closet.

Mainiac

Hello @Roger ,

Thank you for your response. This is definitely one of the reasons I went with your company. I will send you the installer's contact information shortly.

Mainiac

Hi @Ron Jr._3 ,

Thanks for your reply. The installer did mention the boiler was pitched. I actually created a video with my phone right next to the boiler to record the noise. My daughter showed me how to upload it to YouTube so here it is:
https://youtu.be/Gk9rfxFixG8

Mainiac

Hi @HVACNUT ,

Thanks for the reply. I though the installer pointed to that ceiling valve when we could hear the air escaping when the baseboards were filling. Maybe I was mistaken.

Mainiac

Hello @DanHolohan ,

Thanks for the response. I read many of your comments regarding the quietness of the system when researching the System 2000 on here.

DanHolohan

Thanks, @Mainiac

Mainiac

@STEVEusaPA

Recently had a call for the hot water to heat. After the burner stopped and the purge was happening there was only a very slight water trickling sound instead of the much more noticeable sloshing sound when circulating/purging heating zones.

Roger

Thank you, @Mainiac - I appreciate the additional information. The air eliminator on System 2000 should do a very good job at removing air from your heating zones and when making hot water. As @Ron Jr._3 mentioned, the heating zones should be well purged of air to eliminated gurgles. We will also review with your heating pro to be sure we are not missing anything.

Best,
Roger

carlboiler

Hello, I just had a System 2000 installed in November 2020. I love it! (I am an engineer and everything about the design appeals to me).
I hear the same noise coming from the boiler (the noise in your recording).
The contractor did a superb job and I am very pleased with installation and the service. In addition, when I reported the water noise, the contractor responded promptly and came to my house with a K.E. representative to check out the water sound. The Rep. was very responsive and suggested replacing the circulator pump (on the boiler) with a Grundfos Alpha2. My contactor installed the pump (and by my request) installed a Calleffi 551 air separator in the return line of the heating zone. I cannot overstate the excellent customer service I have received.
In spite of all our efforts, the water noise is still occurring. I would like to share some observations (for possible clues to the problem);
1) In the purge mode, If I close the valve to the plate heat exchanger, temporarily, the noise stops.
2) In the purge mode If I set the the Alpha2 to constant speed 1 (lowest speed), temporarily, the noise stops. 3)When it is very cold outside (0 - 10 F) and, the boiler is running very frequently, the noise stops.
As an engineer I have some ideas (hypotheses) about what may be causing this, based on my "black box" observations, however, I would love to hear about someone else's experience and (hopefully) success in solving this problem.
Question: Did you find the problem?? Also, would like to hear from anyone with experience with this problem.
Thanks, Carl

Roger

Thank you for your post, Carl.
Please PM me with your contractor's company name so our tech team can coordinate with our territory manager and your heating professional to explore solutions as well.
Best,
Roger

Turbo Dave

I have experienced water sounds when air was trapped in the heat exchanger.

Roger

For reference on this thread, the symptoms are:

1. Large water volume system with cast iron radiators not easily accessed for bleeding each radiator
   
2. "Water flow" noise in the boiler when the burner is OFF or ON and the circulator is ON, the noise goes away when the circulator stops or flow is reduced.
   
3. "Water flow" noise stops after very long thermostat calls, like recovering temperature from a night setback.
   

The likely cause is that air in the system dissolves into water when the system is cold, and it comes out of solution in the boiler and then vents out. The heating circulator is installed to "pump away" from the expansion tank, and the System 2000 dynamic air eliminator is very effective at air removal. Over time (dependent upon how much air is in the system and how often it runs), the air in the system will be removed and the the flow noise should go away. The noise temporarily goes away on long thermostat calls because the system is hot and air is no longer dissolving into the water.

As an additional note, if the symptoms were different (sizzling or other noise) only when the burner is ON and the noise fades or stops when the burner is OFF and the circulator is ON, then the boiler should be cleaned. The heating professional should contact Energy Kinetics for simple, quick, and effective cleaning instructions.

Roger