Replacement for HBSmith Princess 2?

MissButters

Hi. We are considering replacing the radiator in one of my son's room since it seems to be undersized and his room is very cold. I found a copy of the 1920 HB Smith catalog, and it looks like his 8 sections 2 column radiator has a rating of 24, which I believe translates to 5760 BTU/hr. I went through the BTU Quality calculator on the AF Supply website to get a recommendation, and it has 5760 and the minimal for his room with three exterior walls, windows, size, etc. So, we were looking at purchasing a 12 section 6 tube radiator, which is a 36 and translates to 8640 BTU/hr (their high power recommendation). Does that seem reasonable? Also, when I looked at his radiator, it says princess 2, but then it almost looks like a .5 or an 'S' afterward. Does anyone know what that means (see attached photo). Lastly, any tips for switching out the radiator? I read to take the old spud off if using the old valve, or new valve and new spud. Is that correct? Thanks so much!

acwagner

You'll want to check the size of the supply pipe to make sure it is large enough to handle the new radiator load. If you post the size someone here can verify it for you.

Are you looking for a brand new modern radiator, or a refurbished old radiator that looks the same as your current one?

Also, yes, you'll need to swap out the valve/spud with a new radiator. Keep in mind that the dimensions of the new valve are probably different than the old valve, so it might not line up with the existing pipe. Same for if you're buying a brand new radiator, since its inlet tapping might be higher or lower than the current radiator.

nicholas bonham-carter

Does this radiator get fully hot, or could it be getting steam late?
Generally radiators were appropriately sized for the room by the original installers.
Post some pictures of your main vents in the basement before changing the radiator.—NBC

MissButters

We were looking at a new radiator, and I am aware that the inlet pipe is lower than our current one, so if we swap it, then we'll have to raise the new radiator up on a pedestal or something. And, I apologize for not knowing this, but is the supply pipe the main one in the basement, or the one that branches off the main?

acwagner

Check the pipe coming up through the floor first. Alternatively, sometimes the valve has the size listed on the side, but not always.

I've found the modern radiators don't work as well with steam as the old radiators. The old radiators have large internal spaces that allow the steam heat the radiator evenly. Modern radiators are much smaller, and sometimes don't heat as well.

You could also look at getting a refurbished old radiator that is the same style as your current one.

nicholas bonham-carter

On a parallel flow system, the risers off the boiler feed the mains, mounted high, and the mains travel to all points of the building, sloping down to their ends before dropping to the floor.
At the ends, there should be main vents to let the air out quickly, and with low resistance.
This therefore allows the main to fill with steam along its length so steam can arrive at all the radiators simultaneously.

acwagner

Also, as @nicholas bonham-carter asked, does the radiator get completely hot or only partially hot?

KC_Jones

Is the radiator heating all the way across and the room is cold, or is it only partially heating and the room is cold. These are 2 very different things.

On a steam system it would be very unusual to have an undersized radiator.

acwagner

And, just realized--is that a metal enclosure that's next to the radiator in the photo? Is it normally over the radiator?

EBEBRATT-Ed

Check with you local scrap yard or a building recycler you can probably find a match

MissButters

Yes, the radiator gets completely hot. And yes, we have a metal enclosure over it.

acwagner

That enclosure is likely reducing the output of the radiator. Have you tried leaving it off for a while to see if that improves things?

KC_Jones

MissButters said:

Yes, the radiator gets completely hot. And yes, we have a metal enclosure over it.

Second part, does it heat all the way across at the same time as other radiators in the house. Rads are sized to the room, so if you have one in the living room, does the living room get fully hot at the same time as the one in that bedroom. Heating a room is a function of BTU per hour, so there is a time function in there.

I only ask all this to verify you have good balance in the system before you go swapping an entire radiator.

I looked at your other posts and you never followed up as to if you corrected your main venting problem.

MissButters

KC_Jones said:

MissButters said:

Yes, the radiator gets completely hot. And yes, we have a metal enclosure over it.

Second part, does it heat all the way across at the same time as other radiators in the house. Rads are sized to the room, so if you have one in the living room, does the living room get fully hot at the same time as the one in that bedroom. Heating a room is a function of BTU per hour, so there is a time function in there.

I only ask all this to verify you have good balance in the system before you go swapping an entire radiator.

I looked at your other posts and you never followed up as to if you corrected your main venting problem.

Thanks so much - Just went back and looked at my old thread about the venting and missed half the responses. We did put a bigger vent on what someone labeled A, but now I have to go back and look at what someone labeled 'B' with a missing vent. I think we will hold off on swapping the radiator for a bit till we go through some of the things suggested. We have two other radiators with leaking valves that we need to deal with first (fix the leak - not change the radiators)! Thanks so much!

retiredguy

If the radiators are as old as I believe they are, the original boiler was probably an old coal or a very slow heating gas fired boiler. If I am right, the steam production of the boiler was probably much different than that of a newer type boiler using today's standards. consequently, the heating of the radiators and the home would have been much different than the system operates today. Before you go and try to make changes to the system or an individual room I would contact an experienced steam company in your area to ask for their advice and an overall system inspection. You may only need to make a few simple changes to the system to get it to heat evenly and efficiently. The metal enclosure that was previously mentioned and the position of furniture in the room will affect the heat output of the radiator.