Oil from an old tank to a new one.

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In researching whether the transfer of oil from an old tank to a new one is permitted in New York State I find that the International Residential Codes are silent and so is NFPA 31. Gramby’s installation instructions for their UL 80 tank says nothing about it, but Gramby’s installation instructions for their 2 in 1 Fuel Oil Storage Tank says “Do not transfer oil from the old tank into this tank.” NORA training says not to do it but from an internet search I learned that many professionals fuel storage tank installers will.

I have searched The Wall and I know there are firm opinions here on the matter. What I'd like to know is if any one knows of scientific research on the matter.

I'm doing research for an article. Thank you, Arlene

EBEBRATT-Ed

JMHO, as far as I am concerned you can transfer the oil to the new tank, your not disposing of it so I don't see how it could be prohibited.

However, any residue left in the old tank would be a completely different story

EdTheHeaterMan

Im not sure of any regulation prohibiting the transfer of fuel from an old tank to a new tank. However, I have experience in this situation. I strongly advise against this practice. One customer insisted that we put the oil from the old tank into the new tank. We did what the customer wanted. The old outside above ground tank had a history of "No Heat" service calls related to contaminated oil. Including fuel line freeze up at cold temperature. Once the new tank was installed, the "No Heat" calls continued. Some were definitely contaminated oil related. This past summer we ran the tank empty, and forced clean oil at 30 psi across the bottom of the tank and flushed a considerable amount of tank bottom deposits from the now 3 year old tank. I expect there will be no contaminated fuel issues this winter.

Jellis

I have not heard of a code prohibiting you from keeping your old fuel.
Most contractors who replace oil tanks around here have a transfer pump and take care of this.
Regarding the above post saying this is a bad practice, I disagree completely, UNLESS you have a history of no heat calls that could possible be related to fuel quality it would be foolish and costly to dispose of the old fuel.
When they transfer the fuel from the old tank they should be able to hold the suction line up from the bottom of the tank and avoid transferring any sludge or debris from the bottom of the tank.

HVACNUT

I do not recommend it. If its done, make sure the pick up pipe is at least 5" from the bottom of the tank. This will make it so it doesn't pick up water and sludge. The 5" at the bottom get disposed of into a waste oil drum, or drums for tank removal or abatement.

If the new tank is going in a different location I suggest installing the new tank. Filling the new tank. Run the oil line(s) to the burner. Remove the fill and vent from the old tank. When you run out of oil, call me. Swap out the oil line(s) at the burner. Nozzle, filter, strainer. Combustion test. See ya.

EdTheHeaterMan

Granby has a label on the standard residential fuel tank with a list of "Best Practices". One of them is that it's not recommend taking the contents of the old tank and placing it in the new tank.

By following this recommendation your customer does not have problems with contamination from the old tank. By ignoring this recommendation there are no guarantees about old tank products causing contamination in the new tank

That being said I have some questions for Jellis:

What is the recommended hight to "hold up the suction line" in order to guarantee the fuel quality in a 30-year old tank? Does this hight change if it is a 20 year old tank? Do you offer any guarantee regarding the fuel quality? Are you looking to generate future service calls to generate more revenue?

I offer to put the old oil in a drum and connect a temporary fuel system until the new tank can be filled with fuel oil from a reputable dealer. once the drum is empty we will return and connect the permanent fuel line to the new tank with new oil.

sometimes the customer pays for this option and sometimes the customer donates the old fuel to a local church for distribution to the needy. My tank removal guy handles the transfer in those cases.

Jellis

That being said I have some questions for Jellis:

What is the recommended hight to "hold up the suction line" in order to guarantee the fuel quality in a 30-year old tank? Does this hight change if it is a 20 year old tank? Do you offer any guarantee regarding the fuel quality? Are you looking to generate future service calls to generate more revenue?

I don't know what the "recommended suction line height" is.
I would not offer a guarantee regarding the oil quality, and as I mentioned if they have a questionable history of service calls than I would certainly err on the side of caution and use a temp tank.
"Are you looking to generate future service calls to generate more revenue?"
...No...that is the same as stealing in my book.

I've never had a call back on an oil tank installation (knock on wood)

The way I look at it.. Use a temp tank and your guaranteed to have to return to the job.
Use good judgement and transfer the old fuel when its safe to do so. and everyone's happy

Harold

First - totally unqualified to deal with this.

But a thought. Could you make a simple pre-filter to put inline before the pump (or after) when transferring old oil with a transfer pump? A re-usable tool. Maybe a transparent section of hose to watch for hitting the gunk level. Put the intake hose on a stick or a weight and watch for hitting the gunk level.

A piece of thick PVC pipe with a removable end to replace a filter. A few fittings. Something effective. Maybe a truck size filter element (or whatever) with a tight fit.

STEVEusaPA

Not quite sure what scientific research the OP is looking for.

I've had no good experience transferring old oil into a new tank.

First you're wrong to thing all the 'junk' is only on the bottom. Microbes grow throughout the tank. Only the water and sludge you can see is on the bottom.
You are giving your new tank a 20-30 year head start on failure, all to save a few hundred bucks.

Filtering it won't help either.

Only polishing the fuel would work. This is done all the time with permanent diesel generators. And to get a company out there to do that with their $3000 machine will cost more than the oil is worth.

Many times I had a new tank ready to go. Some cases, there was room to put a new tank. So the new tank was installed/filled. When the old tank almost ran out, hooked up the new line, filter, etc., bled and back in business.
In the cases where there wasn't room, and it was winter, show up with the tank and 5 gallons of clean oil, when the old tank was almost empty. Run the heater off the 5 gallon can, change the tank. It can even be filled before the fill and vent are installed to get the customer back up and running.
Emergency cases, not much you can do logistically.

Best to burn it all, then new tank, new oil line, new filters, etc. Or have it pumped out and bought to a shop that takes and burns waste oil.

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STEVEusaPA said:

Not quite sure what scientific research the OP is looking for.

First you're wrong to thing all the 'junk' is only on the bottom. Microbes grow throughout the tank. Only the water and sludge you can see is on the bottom.

You are giving your new tank a 20-30 year head start on failure, all to save a few hundred bucks.

Filtering it won't help either.

Great answer. I believe you. I have a instinct that you're right. But instinct doesn't win a debate.

The scientific research I'm looking for is the one that taught you what you said above. Where did you learn that microbes grow throughout the tank? How do you know the pump over practice gives the tank a head start on failure? How do you know that filtering won't help? That's the research I'd like to find. If it exists.

Thank you all for your answers. If you know of research or hear of any in your travels, toss it my way.

STEVEusaPA

I’m not trying to win a debate. It’s what I learned thru classes and experience.
Maybe Brookhaven National Laboratory can offer some 'proof'.
https://www.bnl.gov/world/

EdTheHeaterMan

National Oil Research Alliance (NORA) publishes information that may be helpful. On page 5 of chapter 3 there is one small reference to oil quality: "Although large tanks are often installed
for delivery efficiency, an oversized tank
can cause service problems—such as:
• Poor fuel quality—fuel oil has a shelf
life and deteriorates over time.
• Corrosion—larger tanks usually build
up more water from condensation."

not quite on topic about transferring oil from an old tank, it does refer to oil quality in fuel storage tanks. maybe there is more available from NORA that is on topic. Perhaps you can contact them.

EdTheHeaterMan

followup: page 5 chapter 3 of the OilHeat Technicians Manual that I have on my shelf. also available online

EdTheHeaterMan

If this qualifies as a "case study" for research purposes...

The following pictures are from a customer in Ocean City NJ (mentioned in my first reply post) who requested the oil from the old tank get used in the new tank in 2015 three years ago.. The before picture (bottom) shows what was in the bottom of the empty tank after three years of operation. (combination of clear water and a clear gelatinous deposit)

After applying clean oil under pressure to the 3 year old tank and flushing that oil and tank bottom deposits away, (similar to cleaning the sidewalk with a pressure washer) we are starting this winter with a fresh tank of uncontaminated fuel. I was unable to remove the rust stain about 4" from the center on each side of the tank bottom

By the way, I held up the suction line about 8 " from the bottom of the old tank 3 years ago and still got what you see in the before picture.

Records show we took about 35 gallons of contaminated oil away in 2015 and returned 165 gallons of old oil to the tank. We completed over $700.00 in no heat services calls because of the contaminated oil in 2016-17, 2017-18 and 2018-19. This summer we removed another 30 gallons of contaminated fuel. and used 25 gallons of clean fuel to wash out the tank.

The uneven dark line in the center of the picture extending to the right of the picture is the 3/8" copper suction top feed tube and the shadow cast by the flashlight

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STEVEusaPA said:

I’m not trying to win a debate. It’s what I learned thru classes and experience.
Maybe Brookhaven National Laboratory can offer some 'proof'.
https://www.bnl.gov/world/

Thanks. BTW, I know you're not. It's me. *I'm* trying to win a debate.