Honeywell R7284 or Beckett 7505?

ctregan

I need to change out an old R7184B primary control. Two replacements come up, the Honeywell R7284 or the Beckett 7505. Is any of these better? or more reliable?
Thank you,
Craig

ctregan

The beckett is named GeniSys.

HVACNUT

What burner are you working on?
If that's all you're doing, and not making any adjustments. I hope. I like the GeniSys 7505. You will need the 7505B. The B designates pre purge utilizing a solenoid valve. Your current primary is a B.
With the existing wiring to the primary, is there a constant hot as well as power from B1 on the aquastat? Like a Black and a Red?
If you're going in there, I would replace the cad cell eye and leads as well.
When you're done it needs to be checked. While power is off, remove the cad cell eye. Start the burner. There should be pre purge, I think the default setting is 10 seconds. Then trial for ignition. The burner should immediately fire (after pre purge) and then go into safety mode within 15 seconds. Put the eye back(power off). Start the burner. Raise the heat or turn on hot water. Make sure the burner shuts off at its limit temperature setting. Then cycle it one more time to double check.

STEVEusaPA

Carlin ProMaxx first, then Honeywell. Either one doesn’t require a special tool to program/diagnose.
I’m not a big fan of the longevity Beckett’s AC Ready kit.

Steamhead

STEVEusaPA said:

Carlin ProMaxx first, then Honeywell. Either one doesn’t require a special tool to program/diagnose.

I prefer the Genisys, because the fact that a special tool is needed to program it or access the error codes means it's less likely to be tampered with.

STEVEusaPA

> @Steamhead said:
> (Quote)
> I prefer the Genisys, because the fact that a special tool is needed to program it or access the error codes means it's less likely to be tampered with.

In theory I agree. But people will tamper, YouTube, or whatever anyway, so might as well put the best one on.

ctregan

Thanks for your replies. Below are some photos showing the burner.
Last year we had problems with the burner going into lockout every couple of days. (We have scheduled maintenance every year; vacuum, clean, change nozzle, adjust).

The furnace starts but does not always ignight in the allowed time - so it shuts down. Had the company come back a few times... it was fixed for a week or two but started to lock out again.
I am not a tech, but I did some investigating. Found the pump gasket was leaking oil (and maybe letting in air?) changed that. The pump screen was a mess too, changed that. These have never been changed in years?! I also replaced the cad eye. I have new electrodes (they have never been changed) but may have service guy do that.

They did change the transformer two years ago and spark is fine.... I noticed they charged me $150 for a new transformer. I found the same part online for $40. They also wanted $50 for a new cad eye. I figure If I get the parts before the tech arrives... maybe avoid some costly parts.

The primary is 15 years old. It gets humid in the basement in the summer. Maybe some electrical connections have corroded? It was fine one season (no problems) - then problems the next season.

So Im thinking of buying parts that might help. If I had to buy a primary from the service gentlman's truck it would be $250. The electrodes could help. New capacitor on motor (Do pump solinoids go bad?) Most of these parts can be ordered online at decent prices and at least I have a back up.

So, in short, Id like to get a new primary control before winter. Its possible this is the problem. If not... I'll be updated and the new read outs could help future problems.

The Carln looks promising.... I've read the beckett GeniSys might not be dependable... Honeywell may require new wires.

The other option is a used, reconditioned, or NOS R7184B and do a simple switch out.

STEVEusaPA

DO NOT USE A RECONDITIONED PRIMARY CONTROL, EVER!!! Burning down your house is not worth saving a few bucks. Every oil burner tech that has been doing this for a considerable amount of time has probably had a runaway burner story from a reconditioned primary control...only takes one.

As far as price for parts you can buy online, the argument is ridiculous. You're paying because you called a tech out, who has a truck, insurance & and all kinds of expenses, skills and tools. They came to your house, diagnosed the problem, had the part on their truck, and got the heat back on. Honestly, most charge more for that repair.
By that logic when you go out to eat the first thing you should do is have the owner come out so you can tell them how much you can buy all the components for your meal at the super market compared to the price on the menu.

If you buy your own parts, the tech puts them on, and the part fails, I assume you wouldn't expect the tech to come out for free and replace your replacement parts?

BTW, this site doesn't allow pricing, so please remove if you can still edit your post.

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Seems like you had a lousy burner tech. An annual service should include a pump strainer/gasket, proper cleaning, tune-up and full combustion test with results posted.

Every component can be properly checked with the right skills and tools.
Your nuisance lockouts, we all get them. Failure to light could be:
-Improper air/fuel mixture.
-Improper draft.
-Vacuum leak or restriction
-Fuel system improperly bled.
-Partially blocked nozzle
-Improper electrode setting, or cracked electrodes.
-Bad/sticking delay oil valve
-Burner motor
-Bad ignitor
--and on and on.
All the above can be checked, like I said above. It's rarely the primary, but that can be checked too.
Also, a newer primary would give you a probable reason why the burner failed to ignite.
And in the worse of worse case scenarios, they make a product that can attach to every component and monitor your burner cycles to help diagnose the problem. In almost 30 years, I used that maybe 3 times, and it only confirmed what I though was wrong but couldn't prove (and was too hard headed to change the component).

ctregan

Yes, I expect to pay more from a technician for parts and grateful they got the heat back on.

This is a big fleet service company with lots of painted vans. I get the feeling when they do a routine cleaning they need to be quick. No time for replacing parts. I also get the impression most techs dislike working on old oil heaters.... I dont blame them, they are messy and smell. There are much cleaner heating systems to work on.

Need someone who can test the system more thoroughly. Going to find an independant furnace guy who knows oil heaters well.

STEVEusaPA

Did you try:
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/
Either an independent (not any left around my way) or a small owner/operator oil company like myself would always do a better job.
I enjoy working on oil heating equipment. It doesn't need to be messy or dirty, or smell. Although I won't lie, the few times I help my buddy with gas equipment it is nice.

The problem is most oil companies don't look at the regular maintenance as an opportunity to improve the image of oil heat.

I take at least a 1.5 hours on a furnace and 1.5 to 2.5 hours on a boiler, depending on ease of access. That's opposed to virtually every oil company who expects a tech to do 8 in a day-very sad.

I want them clean, perfectly tuned and purring along trouble free. I want to fix/repair/replace any discovered issues before they become problems.
I have very few service calls throughout the winter (nor do I want any).
I want my customers to be happy and have trouble free equipment.
Works great because I've never advertised and could work every day of the year just based on referrals.
At the end of the day it is a service business.

ctregan

There is a sense of security with a big company but this year I'd like to try something different.

I will definatly get a new primary control. The old one has seen a lot of use and a lot of lockouts.

I also read about "purging the lines". Its where compressed air is blown into the fuel supply line to clean out any debris. I know this has ever been done with our system. Might be worth a try.

STEVEusaPA

Yeah don't do that. You don't need compressed air. A simple push/pull pump to blow back (if necessary) the line, then a proper bleeding.
With a filter at the tank (or 2) you should never have anything in the fuel line.
If you're fuel line is full of crud or blocked it should be replaced, then with filter(s) at the tank you'll have no problems.
If you oil tank is full of crud/microbes, then it will need to be treated, or cleaned.
Best is empty tank, clean tank, new fuel with additives (no one really does that). Or replace tank, fill with new fuel, put in an additive.
Or, run tank down to empty, treat tank, fill, change filters, bleed.

ctregan

Thank you. I will start with the tank. Test for water and see if there's sludge. After that will be the lines. This seems like a logical place to start.

ctregan

I used Gasoila water dtector. Its supposed to turn red if there is water in the tank. I got some swirls of red on the paste. I'm not sure if that is bad or normal?

STEVEusaPA

Normal.
With the tank settled, drain about a pint out of the bottom into a clear jar, let it sit for a day, see how it looks-water will separate and move to the bottom.
I usually put a bottle of additive in every tank at the start of the season.