Seattle to consider ban on natural gas...

RayWohlfarth

I just posted this in LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-hydronics-ray-wohlfarth/

RayWohlfarth

I loved George Carlin @gennady

John Ruhnke

@RayWohlfarth

Thankyou Ray for writing that great article. I like to think that maybe the message that I have been making in this thread is getting across to others. That is all we need. It is little steps that have a positive impact and make a difference. If we all work together we can influence the public. WE can get them to see the value in a good hydronics guy!!

RayWohlfarth

Thanks @John Ruhnke I appreciate it

hot_rod

I think Elko Nevada tried using uses their water mains as a loop field. The first year the connections were too close together and they froze the city water main, pulled too much heat out . I heard they moved connections a block apart after that for more ground contact. I met an engineer familiar with that project a few years back

Nevada has some district geothermal systems, Elko for one. Uses 176° ground water for heating applications.

Some of the higher temperature geothermal wells provide electricity. Geo water flashes a low boiling point fluid to steam to spin the turbines, called binary systems.

John Ruhnke

@hot_rod

Awesome stuff!

hot_rod

John Ruhnke said:

@hot_rod

Awesome stuff!

If ever you get to Reno head over to the Peppermill and ask for a tour of their geo system, they have been very open to taking plumbers on a short tour.

They can pump over 1200 gpm of 170°F water from their main well. Handles all the DHW, pools, spas and heating load for the massive 1600 room resort.

They fell a bit short on temperature with the last drill, they hoped to generate electricity also, if they hit 200F or more.

Leonard

I'ld consider geothermal well, but I'm ~ 60 and I wonder if I would ever break even on cost. I run FHW 1.1 GPH heating oil, 50% duty cycle on -12 deg F night with some wind a few years ago (~lowest temp I've ever seen here in southern NH). The 61 year old furnace was sized to also heat never finished unfinished 2nd floor.

Other issue is power failures........with a FHW oil furnace I don't need a very large generator to run it ~ < 1kw, could almost use a small battery bank and inverter...........With a heat pump I need a lot larger gen to handle the starting surge of the pump motor.....gen fuel$$$$$ and capital costs$$. Gens are THIRSTY 24/7 over a long outage, supplying 5kw uses ~three 55 drums of gasoline ( 168 gal) in a week, ~ $400. More gallons on propane ( ~ 20% more)

Electric mandate ......Unless that electricity is made from non-fossil fuel energy sources the mandate is a joke.

IF that extra electricity is made with fossil fuels then they will have just mandated a MINIMUM 150% increase in energy cost and CO2 output. Because at BEST power plants are only 40% efficient at converting fuel to power ( 1/40%)= 2.50 ......... And then there is the energy losses of transporting electricity over longer distances. I worked at GE on fuel cell R&D (~ 90% efficient) to replace turbines in the 80s.

CO2 output is even worse if use a coal plant......And existing coal plants are the ones most likely to be used initially , till other plants are built to provide the extra power.

ChrisJ

@Leonard my steam system uses around 12 Watts.

Leonard

Likely why steam and vapor fuel was popular in the begining