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Seattle to consider ban on natural gas...

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Comments

  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,441
  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,441
    I loved George Carlin @gennady
    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
  • John Ruhnke
    John Ruhnke Member Posts: 882
    @RayWohlfarth

    Thankyou Ray for writing that great article. I like to think that maybe the message that I have been making in this thread is getting across to others. That is all we need. It is little steps that have a positive impact and make a difference. If we all work together we can influence the public. WE can get them to see the value in a good hydronics guy!!
    I am the walking Deadman
    Hydronics Designer
    Hydronics is the most comfortable and energy efficient HVAC system.
  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 1,441
    Thanks @John Ruhnke I appreciate it
    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 21,872
    I think Elko Nevada tried using uses their water mains as a loop field. The first year the connections were too close together and they froze the city water main, pulled too much heat out :). I heard they moved connections a block apart after that for more ground contact. I met an engineer familiar with that project a few years back

    Nevada has some district geothermal systems, Elko for one. Uses 176° ground water for heating applications.

    Some of the higher temperature geothermal wells provide electricity. Geo water flashes a low boiling point fluid to steam to spin the turbines, called binary systems.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • John Ruhnke
    John Ruhnke Member Posts: 882
    @hot_rod

    Awesome stuff!
    I am the walking Deadman
    Hydronics Designer
    Hydronics is the most comfortable and energy efficient HVAC system.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 21,872

    @hot_rod

    Awesome stuff!

    If ever you get to Reno head over to the Peppermill and ask for a tour of their geo system, they have been very open to taking plumbers on a short tour.

    They can pump over 1200 gpm of 170°F water from their main well. Handles all the DHW, pools, spas and heating load for the massive 1600 room resort.

    They fell a bit short on temperature with the last drill, they hoped to generate electricity also, if they hit 200F or more.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Leonard
    Leonard Member Posts: 903
    edited September 2019
    I'ld consider geothermal well, but I'm ~ 60 and I wonder if I would ever break even on cost. I run FHW 1.1 GPH heating oil, 50% duty cycle on -12 deg F night with some wind a few years ago (~lowest temp I've ever seen here in southern NH). The 61 year old furnace was sized to also heat never finished unfinished 2nd floor.

    Other issue is power failures........with a FHW oil furnace I don't need a very large generator to run it ~ < 1kw, could almost use a small battery bank and inverter...........With a heat pump I need a lot larger gen to handle the starting surge of the pump motor.....gen fuel$$$$$ and capital costs$$. Gens are THIRSTY 24/7 over a long outage, supplying 5kw uses ~three 55 drums of gasoline ( 168 gal) in a week, ~ $400. More gallons on propane ( ~ 20% more)

    Electric mandate ......Unless that electricity is made from non-fossil fuel energy sources the mandate is a joke.

    IF that extra electricity is made with fossil fuels then they will have just mandated a MINIMUM 150% increase in energy cost and CO2 output. Because at BEST power plants are only 40% efficient at converting fuel to power ( 1/40%)= 2.50 ......... And then there is the energy losses of transporting electricity over longer distances. I worked at GE on fuel cell R&D (~ 90% efficient) to replace turbines in the 80s.

    CO2 output is even worse if use a coal plant......And existing coal plants are the ones most likely to be used initially , till other plants are built to provide the extra power.




  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,485
    @Leonard my steam system uses around 12 Watts.

    ;)
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Leonard
    Leonard Member Posts: 903
    Likely why steam and vapor fuel was popular in the begining