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To remove, or not to remove (Radiator)

mikemac52
mikemac52 Member Posts: 44
edited August 2019 in THE MAIN WALL
Renovating home. Switching from oil to natural gas. Creating 3 zones: 1) Basement, 2) First Floor, 3) 2nd & 3rd floor. Hydronic cast iron radiator system.

Contractor is resizing and eliminating some radiators and wants to lose the hallway radiator on the second floor. Answers to my questions were not reassuring as he seems to be going by past experience, (not to be knocked) and that nobody does it this way these days, even though this house is a little unique. (craftsmen/owner built, 1920, incredible woodwork. (I asked about a heat load analysis and received a quizzical look in return.)

My concerns with the thermostat in the hall and without the radiator on the 2nd floor are;
1) During the day first floor dining and living room (both rooms have line of sight to the stairs) will be feeding a good deal of heat to the 2nd floor hall and 3rd floor stairwell, possibly making kitchen and front foyer too warm and the bedrooms too cool.

2) At night, first floor zone on low, all second floor doors closed how do we control heat in the rooms. (his answer after a couple of minutes was, put thermostat in master bed. (not sure I want that, perhaps another room). But as before, 1st floor zone feeding that space making kitchen and foyer too warm.

His not reassuring answer was, heat rises and the first floor is cool the second is warmer and the 3rd is always the warmest.

The reply of, "but if the first floor is cooler than the second, and the 2nd floor warmed by that radiator, there will be less thermal movement from low floors to high floors", was met with a shaking head (no).

My request was to move the radiator to the wall, away from the railing and make it one of those flat-ish radiator things. (okay, I should do more homework)

Is my thinking on this correct?
Or is this a small issue and I should go with his gut and experience?


Comments

  • JakeCK
    JakeCK Member Posts: 1,130
    edited August 2019
    Without a heat loss calc he's guessing. Is this a GC or a heating contractor?

    Also those old cast iron radiators are money, I would keep them even if they aren't going to be used anymore just because of that.
  • mikemac52
    mikemac52 Member Posts: 44
    GC, he seems to be relying on a plumber I haven't met yet.
  • JakeCK
    JakeCK Member Posts: 1,130
    edited August 2019
    You need to be a plumber to do hydronic, but you don't need to be a hydronics guy to do plumbing. Just something to keep in mind. I would be very suspicious.
  • mikemac52
    mikemac52 Member Posts: 44
    GC is through the wife, I've already gotten into it a couple of times with him already but it is too late to stop. So I just want to make sure my prejudices are not making this a bigger deal than it really is.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,980
    You could use TRVs on the radiators, depending on how they are piped.
    There are a number of ways to pipe/control.
    Caleffi is your friend.
    I’d leave all the rads, use TRVs and with a proper heat loss lower the swt via ODR, and continuous/near continuous circulation.
    steve
  • mikemac52
    mikemac52 Member Posts: 44
    Thanks Steve, that sounds like a good way to go. TRV's, swt and ODR. cool...
    Umm, what?
    I've thought about TRV's and I need to look into how they are installed. Or should I leave this up to the GC?
    No idea about the other acronyms.
    I will be installing a modulating boiler and indirect water heater
    (I pleaded) so am hoping for near continuous circulation.

    I looked at the Caleffi site. Tons of info. Thanks.
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,980
    swt, supply water temperature
    odr, outdoor reset.
    steve
  • mikemac52
    mikemac52 Member Posts: 44
    :( Seems so obvious when you say it.
    Thanks.
  • mikemac52
    mikemac52 Member Posts: 44
    edited August 2019
    Couldn’t find a sure enough answer either way so I’ll go with his gut.

    Thanks for the info.