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Should Heating System Filter Also Cover Reverse Indirect Piping?

D107D107 Posts: 1,564Member
edited June 6 in Gas Heating
I just noticed that our Magnaclean filter is placed only on the heating return, not the common return. Wouldn't the better location be on the horizontal common return against the far wall? Unit has the ability to swivel so that it could be vertical on horizontal piping. The only other place I could see would be right at the boiler output, which Adey considers the second best location. (see attached photo.) Especially important with a 48 gallon reverse indirect and two ECM circs, yes?


Comments

  • D107D107 Posts: 1,564Member
    Or, at this point, to make re-piping easier, should we just add another small Magnaclean filter on the DHW return just after the 90 EL after the check valve before it Tees with the heating return?
  • Cody350Cody350 Posts: 8Member
    The majority of your debris is going to be from the existing distribution system, not the new components.

    I wouldn't be too worried.
    Cody Mack
    Caleffi North America
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 6,026Member
    Agree with @Cody350 your fine as is. Any magnetite in the system will go by the filter sooner or later.
  • 347347 Posts: 103Member
    D107, what is the brass fitting on the bottom if the indirect?
  • hot_rodhot_rod Posts: 11,845Member
    347 said:

    D107, what is the brass fitting on the bottom if the indirect?

    Looks like flow checks on both returns.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    The magic is in hydronics, and hydronics is in me
  • D107D107 Posts: 1,564Member
    edited June 6
    @hot_rod @347 Yes, flow check on each return. While I certainly have to respect the answers I've received so far, it just seems to me that if 'any magnetite in the system will go by the filter sooner or later' --except for the non-heating season--then it will just as well go by the DHW ECM VR1816 first. Does that circ have a way to clean it out annually from any debris it collects? Even though the DHW black and copper piping is new, it would still seem possible to generate some debris. Over the years I've heard from numerous contractors how strong those ECM magnets are. If this was a standard circ I'd have no concerns. With my old system with Grundfos 3-speeds and Taco 007s we never even had a filter and no debris problems in over 20 years.

    Admittedly in our system the contractor did a great job at putting in a cleaner, flushing the entire system, demineralizing the water then adding an inhibitor. Shouldn't be much floating around. But Manufacturer definitely recommends installation of filter in common return.
  • hot_rodhot_rod Posts: 11,845Member
    I would agree that the ideal location would be the common return so all flows pass thru it.

    Some of the devices on the market are magnetic removal only, others are dirt and magnetic.

    The pump manufacturers are stepping up to design against magnetite accumulation. We are talking microscopic size particles, tough to seal or barrier that away from the magnet 100%. If water can get to the rotor, so can 5 micron size particles in my mind. That is about 1/10 the thickness of a human hair, by the way. We have numerous examples of that being the case.

    Not knowing how much magnetic particle is in the system or may break loose, or be generated going forward, it's a guess as to how much service it will need.
    It could be relocated our an additional mag-sep added at the boiler, it's your call.

    It sounds like the installer did his best to clean and flush and eliminate as much debris as possible.

    The first blowdown or cleaning is usually a good indication of what still lingers in the system. Check it after a good heating run to be sure all the piping has been circulated.

    Low velocity zones, like the bottom of the TurboMax will be places that particles collect also.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    The magic is in hydronics, and hydronics is in me
  • D107D107 Posts: 1,564Member
    @Hotrod In its literature Magnetite claims "...MagnaClean Professional2XP delivers exceptional domestic central heating system protection against the damaging effects of black iron oxide sludge and non-magnetic debris..." If you can recommend other products that do both magnetic and non-magnetic I'd be glad to hear about them.

    Yes, today when I drained a pint or so from the Turbomax, the water was quite brown and with some debris. Best time to drain out such stuff seems to be long after the last firing, when everything has had a chance to settle. When I did it just after a DHW call, water was almost clear.
  • hot_rodhot_rod Posts: 11,845Member
    We have done a lot of testing and development of the Caleffi products, and also tested competitors.
    We started with dirt separation function down to 5 micron, and then engineered mag function for the microscopic magnetite removal. Here are some videos to watch.


    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    The magic is in hydronics, and hydronics is in me
  • D107D107 Posts: 1,564Member
    @hot_rod great videos. I assume both units have an air vent for bleeding.
  • hot_rodhot_rod Posts: 11,845Member
    The DirtMag Plus is not available yet in the US, yet.

    Boiler manufacturers should consider it as an OEM component :) Might save them some warranty issues.

    Depending on pipe size we have a good selection of DirtMags available in brass, steel and composite.

    This is the most common for 1" and up pipe size.

    The upper port could be used for a gauge, sensor, air vent, a convince port for your use.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    The magic is in hydronics, and hydronics is in me
  • D107D107 Posts: 1,564Member
    edited June 12
    I'm liking the DirtMag 546307A which should work with the black pipe threads. We'd have to add isolation valves. Unlike the air vents, I don't believe they need a particular straight run of pipe before or after. We may just leave the existing Magnaclean 2x pro where it is to avoid repiping cost.

    Intent is to install the dirtmag on the common return just before the 90 el into the boiler to right of union ball valve.

    Note that I have received private confirmation that this setup will be good.


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