Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.

If you've found help here, check back in to let us know how everything worked out.
It's a great way to thank those who helped you.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.

Genoni failure solution

HenryHenry Posts: 888Member
We have noticed a number of genoni heat exchanger failures in apartment blocks that have had to drain the system for repairs. The fresh water causes corrosion and iron oxide sludge (manganite). For up to 1 million BTU, it is a 1 inch bypass system with a Dirtmag and a 20 inch 5 micron bag filter plus a flow meter. Up to 2 million BTU it is a 2 inch Dirtmag and a 40 inch 5 micron bag filter plus a flow meter. The flow rate for the 1 inch is 10 GPM and an UP15-42 is satisfactory. The 2 inch is at 45 GPM using an UPS26-150. The enclosed sketch shows an error by our tech, it is not 5 GPM for the 1 inch. It is in French as most of our plumbers are French speaking. The enclosed pictures show a sample of boiler water that was magnetised. The iron particles fell to the magnet. The yellow water was the same system after two months of bypass filtration. It is a relatively inexpensive insurance for the boilers.




Comments

  • SuperTechSuperTech Posts: 938Member
    The Dirtmag is a great product, I'm always surprised at how much magnetite gets blown out after I remove the magnet.
    How often do you need to replace the five micron bag filter?
  • HenryHenry Posts: 888Member
    The first one after a week, then two weeks. The janitor empties the dirtmag daily.
  • Solid_Fuel_ManSolid_Fuel_Man Posts: 1,454Member
    Is there a differential pressure monitor or gauge to determine when the bag needs to be changed?
    Master electrician specialising in boiler and burner controls, multiple fuel systems, radiant system controls, building controls, and universal refrigeration tech.
  • hot_rodhot_rod Posts: 11,252Member

    Is there a differential pressure monitor or gauge to determine when the bag needs to be changed?

    good thought, a pressure gauge on the filter would be an indicator, like a pool filter typically uses.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    The magic is in hydronics, and hydronics is in me
  • SteamheadSteamhead Posts: 12,868Member
    The best solution is not to use a boiler with a Giannoni heat exchanger in the first place. Then, all these band-aids aren't needed.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • hot_rodhot_rod Posts: 11,252Member
    Nothing at all wrong with Sermeta HX as long as they are pumped properly, have good water quality and adjusted and cleaned on the burner side. Mounted improperly in plastic enclosures didn't help their longevity :)
    Still plenty being used in single and stacked versions. Some long experienced wholesalers tell me fire tube style are failing as if not more often than the Sermeta style.
    https://sermeta.com/en-us/
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    The magic is in hydronics, and hydronics is in me
  • HenryHenry Posts: 888Member
    There is a flow meter (débitmetre) to tell the user when to replace the filter or to purge the dirtmag. We have Genoni/Sermeta boilers running for over 12 years with relatively low maintenance. But if one not installed properly with the right pipe size or pump, it can fail within 5 years. A lot of installers look at the boiler connection size and not the required flow rate size. It is like connecting a 500,000 BTU flat plate heat exchanger that has 1 inch connection and use 1 inch to the boiler! 500,000 BTU requires 2 inch! Even if one sizes everything right but there are frequent emptying of the system to repair leaks, the boilers will pack up due to the fresh O2 and water with sludge. The system that I have shown is for existing installations. New installations can have a Dirtmag of the proper size instead of a Y strainer.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Welcome

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!