Perplexing problem with a Beckett oil burner

markM

I am having a perplexing problem with a Beckett oil burner (Model AFG, serial number 071029-36787). It runs fine for what appears to be a random amount of time then fails with a hard lockout. There can be days, weeks or months between failures. I have a second AFG firing a boiler that heats my shop. The same contractor installed both boilers. Both are serviced by the same company. The shop burner has performed flawlessly.

We started to experience the problem a couple of months after installation. The first service tech tried adding a tiger loop and replacing various components on the burner, however, the problem persisted. He then decided the run from the above ground 1000 gallon tank, which was feeding both burners, was too long (It was about 110 feet of 1/2 copper). So we added a 500-gallon tank next to the house.

The problem continued. The burner always fires up when it is reset. When it fails the service tech checks out the burner and it looks fine. He takes stuff apart cleans and readjusts it, replaces the nozzle etc. The burner runs fine for a few weeks or months then fails with a hard lockout. With this kind of problem, it is really difficult to tell if the actions taken have in any way improved the situation. The tech says that he has replaced everything replaceable including the controller and the transformer. He has also tried increasing the pressure. In addition to messing with the burner, he has replaced the line to the new tank thinking that there might be a defect in the tubing or fittings.

In the last month it has failed six times prior to that it ran for six months. The service company says my burner is in perfect shape and they don’t think replacing it will solve the problem, however, they do not have a solution. Before I just replace the burner is there a cheaper way I can determine if the problem is with the burner or the fuel supply? Do you have any thoughts as to what the problem could be?

Mark Mara

HVACNUT

Well they certainly did do a lot of things didn't they?
What worries me is what you didnt write. Did anyone ever do a combustion test with a digital analyzer?
Might be time for a new service company.

STEVEusaPA

Nuisance lockouts can be a pain. Obviously it has to be something that hasn't been detected, or a simple loose wire/connection.
It's very helpful to see what happens after reset for diagnostics. But being a new burner, I wouldn't replace it. There's no logical reason.

Could be like @HVACNUT mentioned where combustion and/or draft are right on the edge.

Easy help would be to put a newer primary that has some diagnostics, like a Carlin Promaxx.
Second would be to attach a data logger like an OnWatch.

I'd have someone else come out and take a look. Where are you located? Could be a Wallie nearby.

Jellis

Troubling to read about all the changes made. I hope this guy did some testing to justify making any of these changes.

A burner only goes into lockout when the primary control senses an issue.
They should be able to test your burner many ways.
a vacuum gauge and oil pump gauge should be used to check that your oil supply is proper.
Your burner motor should be tested with a electrical meter.
your transformer needs to be tested.
your cad cell needs to be tested

if everything tests out fine and you still have the same issue you could have a faulty primary control that is going into hard lockout without cause.

Numbers from his last calibration would be helpful.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Check to see if the motor has a manual reset overload button. If it does not and has automatic reset the motor could have a "dead" spot. The motor stops in a certain spot and won't restart.

If everything else has been checked this could be the problem

markM

Thank you all for taking the time to reply to my query. I did see at least one of the techs using something that looked like a digital multimeter with a long probe. I’m assuming that was a combustion analyzer. We live in a small town in update NY so I don't have a lot of options for service. The control was replaced with a newer one. I do not think that they have replaced the motor. I can see how a dead spot might be the problem.

The burner locked out again last night. The tech (new tech, same company) says that he traced the problem to the circulator pump which he is replacing. I don't see how this could be the cause but I am desperate so I authorized the replacement. I'm sure it will fire up fine when he is done. Now we wait for the next failure.

By the way, I am on vacation 3,000 miles from my house. I at least I have temperature sensors that I can read remotely.

Thanks again.

Mark Mara

markM

The primary control module, transformer, and cad cell have been replaced. A data logger seems like a good approach. Is this something that you would expect the customer to purchase or should it be provided by the service company?

Mark Mara

Jellis

A circulator should never cause your BURNER to go off on reset. Some systems would "Lockout" if the call for heat is not satisfied within a certain period however, but it would lockout via a different control, not your burners primary control.

Hard to tell whats going on there without more info but all of the part swapping certainly doesn't leave me feeling great about their ability.

I would check the "find a contractor" tool on this site to see if you can find anybody else.

markM

“Find a contractor” gets no hits within 100 miles of me. Sigh....

HVACNUT

You authorized replacement of the circulator. Does that mean you have to pay for it?
Hit the cancel button.
A bad circ will not cause a primary control to go into safety.
What brand and model boiler and is it the same model/size in your shop?
Do you know what brand and model primary was installed?
Is the boiler cold start or does it maintain temperature?
Chimney: brick, liner, triple wall, power vent, direct vent?
It seems like a combustion analysis was done. Any chance you can get a copy of the printout and post it? We're required to leave one copy on site and bring one back to the shop to file away. CYA.

Intplm.

@EBEBRATT-Ed
Quote "dead spot" in the motor. I would go there next. You may possibly need a new motor.

DZoro

Tank is outside? Above the boiler? What oil are you using? Was it a new tank? How far away from the boiler is it now?
D

STEVEusaPA

What town are you in? If I'm not mistaken, find a contractor only finds a contractor who purchased an ad on the website

markM

The tank was new, set on a concrete pad outside the house. The top of the pad is about 6" lower than the concrete floor that the boiler sits on. Oil will gravity feed to the burner. The run is about 50 feet.

The fuel oil is #2 dyed red. In the winter they cut it with 20% kerosene.

Both the shop and house boilers are Smith's, however, they are not the same the one heating the shop is about 3 times the length of the house boiler. Both are used for in-floor radiant heat. The shop boiler is cold start the house boiler maintains temp. The one in house supplies domestic hot water via an indirect water heater and it has a loop that feeds a towel warmer/radiator at boiler temp. Low temp water is feed to the radiant floor manifold. Both use triple wall chimney. I don't know the meaning of direct vent. The shop burner draws combustion air from the room it is in. The house burner gets combustion air from our unheated attic. One tech disconnected the air feed so it pulled from the utility room but it did not seem to affect the lockouts.

I live in the town of Caroline, in Tompkins County, New York State

I apologize that I do not have the boiler and control specifications. We are on the other side of the country from our home for another 3 weeks.

Thanks for all your ideas.

SuperTech

Wow. You really need a new service company. Anyone who blames a burner lockout on a circulator is full of $hit and ripping you off. Nuisance lockouts can be a pain, but with the correct tools and a bit of knowledge it's pretty easy to narrow down the list of possible problems. If everything is correct with the oil pump and combustion analysis that leaves you with a few burner components. A new digital primary control such as the Carlin Pro Maxx or Honeywell R7284U will give you fault history and the ability to monitor how the cad cell is reading the flame as the burner is running. The existing control may not be the problem, but this is a nice upgrade to any burner.

Claiming the burner lockout is caused by a bad circulator is like saying that your car won't start because of a flat tire.

Grallert

my gut and my experiance are both telling me you have a failing motor. The randomness of the lockout is classic motor tell.

GBart

Grallert said:

my gut and my experiance are both telling me you have a failing motor. The randomness of the lockout is classic motor tell.

only if it's an old style motor with a centrifugal switch, if it's PSC motor, no way

could be low voltage from the street

GBart

and the tiger loop thing was wrong, tiger loops can pull 330 ft, the way you tell is by testing the pump vac, see attached chart

http://www.westwoodproducts.com/images/Tigerloop-RUN-LIFT.pdf

Beemags

Combustion test Beckett’s don’t like to run with to much excess air

STEVEusaPA

Beemags said:

Combustion test Beckett’s don’t like to run with to much excess air

Huh? Odd blanket statement that makes no sense. Proper amount of air is determined by draft, smoke and adjusted to put it into a safe operating range of not too lean and not too rich, like all burners.

Beemags

Really I would to a combustion test to see what my excess air is

olpert

Mark,

I get the same problem. My oil boiler Burnham VP-3W stops once or twice per week in not occupied vacation house. Replaced main controller, cell, electrodes. Transformer looks OK, have a good spark.
Lockouts started this winter. Before, in a summer, i disconnected power vent through the basement wall due the smell. Chimney guys connected boiler exhaust to the 20' chimney i believe use to been in use for boiler. Smell gone, but boiler starts lockout.
My questions to experienced guys here if connection to chimney could stop boiler? Could wind brake a flame due back draw? Any devises to prevent back draw?
I find out that not all old boilers listed for direct exhaust through chimney, but I cannot find manual to Burnham VP-3W.

Please advise

Next week I will try to reconnect exhaust back to power vent and later let you know if help

STEVEusaPA

You should start your own thread.

-improper draft, caused by bad chimney and/or bad venting.
-improper fuel line-vacuum leak or restriction.
-improper burner set up.
And none of them require parts replacement.

Every compoment on a burner can be properly checked to confirm working order or in need of replacement, no guessing required.

First of all, is anyone checking the draft over fire and at breech with the proper instruments? Is a draft regulator installed and properly set?
A competent tech would figure it out and you wouldn’t have had to replace all those parts.
A picture of how the flue pipe is connected into the chimney may help.
A description do how your oil line from tank to burner would help-especially if it’s a lift or gravity, and was it properly purged of air.

Actually almost all older burners were able to be vented with a chimney. I wouldn’t keep switching venting until you figure out what’s wrong.