Main Venting and Such

ScrantonSteam

Hey guys,
I am completely new to not only this forum, but also to steam heat. Lets start by saying I have given myself as much of a crash course on steam as I felt I could being a new homeowner. Purchased house in mid November and now in middle of January I'm updating, and fixing and exploring this heating system. I am insulating all the pipes in the basement this weekend, and updated vents as they all seemed to be 40+ years old.The previous owners were the the DIY type couple, which is fine, expect when it comes to a system like this. They had removed most the Radiators in the house to paint them, with, what other than the DIY favorite, metallic spray paint (found the spray cans in the basement), and never bothered to take the gorton vents off the side of them in the this process. Me being a new homeowner for starters, and having not much knowledge on steam heat for two, had no clue where to start. I still am figuring out a lot of this stuff, and understand. I bought three of Dan's books and they have been awesome, and i truly do recommend them to anyone new to this heating system. With all that being said, I did have the vents changed on all the radiators to the Varivent's to which i have been really impressed with myself. However I still have three rad's that just wont get warm unless you crank the heat. Went to the basement to see about the main vents to check them as the books said to, and low and behold i found a few issues. 1. mine is broken up into two main steam lines, as are a lot of them (from my understanding), however I only have 1 air eliminator, which surprisingly still works okay, but will be getting replaced. Upon my checking and following the second main, which supplies the rad's NOT getting hot I found where someone, probably from long long ago, had drilled into the T that supplies the last radiator on that main line, and installed not a main vent, but a regular 1/8th inch 90 degree vent in lieu of a main vent. This is where i called my guy, who is very knowledgeable about steam heating, (and if he doesn't know, he knows someone who will), came by, looked at it, took pictures and, well was at a loss as to how to fix it without getting real involved. He is asking one of his buddies who works with steam day in and day out, but in the mean time I thought i would show you guys and get your thoughts and options on what some of my options might be. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you guys!!

Steamhead

I've done the drill-and-tap thing before. It works.

That looks like a #6 Gorton vent, and the other one should be a #1. How long are those steam mains, and what pipe size are they?

nicholas bonham-carter

The Gorton #1 is good for only about 10 feet of 2 inch pipe, so you undoubtedly need more main venting capacity. The theory of venting calls for fast venting on the mains, and slow on the radiators. This ensures the main supply pipes fill all the way to the dry returns first, before the stem begins to push the air out of the radiators. This enables all the radiators to get steam at the same time, resulting in a balanced system.
That Gorton #1 is close to a union, which will make it easier to take the pipe apart for improvement. The tee and elbow could be cracked off, and a decent sized vent put there.
Get the main venting improved first, and then come back here with any more symptoms for advice. A low pressure (0-3 psi) gauge would be enormously helpful to you in keeping the pressure down below 1.5 psi, (basic function), or lower for economy, and comfort.—NBC

BobC

That 1/8" threaded vent is on a problematic spot where it can grt damaged by slugs of water. First make sure it's working and it's a D vent then pick up a handful of fittings to get it up and away from the main.

How long is each main? You may need more venting, the #1 and D vent are rated at 0.33cfm and only good for very short mains. You might want to either have that hole enlarged so you can pit multiple vents on an antler. The other choice would be to get a 1/2" threadolet welded on the pipe.



What do you have the radiator vents adjusted to?

Bob

ScrantonSteam

Hey guys, thanks for the responses. Okay, so the mains are 2 inches, and the air eliminator vent #1 is for the main that supplies all the rads on the back of the house and all but one bedroom upstairs. the Gorton vaporizer is a C from what I can make out. All the radiators are adjusted for the smaller ones to take longer and the bigger ones to heat up sooner, and the PSI i turned it down to 1.5 PSI last week and that seems to be good. 2.5 is what it was at previously. The main that services the the radiators to the back of the house, and upstairs are 28 ft. That is the one with the Number 1 air eliminator. The main that runs along the front of the house is the one that has the Gorton C vent in the T, and that main all together is 34 ft. This is the main pipe that supplies the biggest Rads in the house. The one in the Living room is the biggest being 8 sections, then the dining room which is 6 sections, and the front entrance is 5 sections, and the last being the rad in the master bedroom, which is only 4 sections. The Gorton C is directly under the dining room radiator, and the only radiator on that main that consistently get hot is the first rad on that main, and that's the living room one (8 section). I defiantly want to put a bigger venting on each main, which I'm thinking a Barnes and Jones, as I have heard, and read really good things about them. I apologize if I'm just rambling, but I truly want to get an understanding for this set up, Thanks

EBEBRATT-Ed

What I would do.

Remove the gorton vent from the tee and put a plug in it.

Cut or smash the CI elbow at the top of the short riser coming out of the tee. Replace that 90 with a tee with a vent on top of the tee.

Remove the nipple from the tee and replace it with two short nipples and a union.

Looking at the piping there are other was to attack this but it's the same amount of work one way or the other.

Someone competent with the right tools it would take 2 hrs start to finish.

Respectfully if your guy was knowledgeable about steam he would know what to do

SteamingatMohawk

Nicholas bonham-carter

Is there somewhere I can find the information you mention about the amount of pipe a certain vent can serve? The only thing I have found is the article, "Balancing Steam Systems". But that only give venting capacity in CFM. I haven't jumped into doing the math that's in the article.

My single pipe system has 2" supply with 1-1/4" on the return with a front supply and return and a rear supply and return of different lengths.

Anything is appreciated.

nicholas bonham-carter

A quick rule of thumb would be to order one big mouth vent for each branch, (biggest bang for the buck), as well as a low pressure gauge.
Put the Big Mouths on their correct locations, and the gauge on the pigtail with a tee, leaving the useless 0-30 psi in place for code reasons.
Monitor the pressure rise as the boiler is just starting to push the air out of the pipes, and verify it is lower than 2 ounces. If it is higher, order and install another Big Mouth using a Menorah, Antler, or Manifold-all the same thing. Some people here have such capacious venting, that the gauge barely shows 1 ounce during venting.
Next, put pats of butter, or margerine on the first, and last radiators, and check to make sure they each melt at the same time. If the closer radiator melts it’s butter much sooner, you may want to put slower vents on the faster radiators.—NBC

ScrantonSteam

So the Gorton 1 is for obvious reasons getting replaced, and the big mouth would go there in place of the gorton 1 that is currently there, and that would take care of that main line. nicholas bonham-carter, Your suggestion is to take apart the T where the gorton C is and replace it with the antler throw 1 big mouth on there, leaving a space to allow for another big mouth if need be due to higher pressures, or would you want to put the antler and vents directly After the last radiator?

JUGHNE

The suggestion above by Ed would involve the least work.
Without a union there you may have to replace several fittings.

nicholas bonham-carter

Yes follow Ed’s suggestion, so that the main vent(s) are beyond the last radiator. If this is parallel flow, then I suggest putting them at the drop, which I think is what Ed is suggesting.—NBC

ScrantonSteam

Okay, I think i now understand what Ed was suggesting. Anyone know where i can find pictures of similar set-ups on this forum to get an idea on it?

SteamingatMohawk

Instead of a threadolet, you can get a service saddle but you need the proper EDPM gasket for your system conditions. Just Google "service saddle".

Smith-Blair sells them, but their lead time for the gasket was a couple of months. You could try sourcing from a different manufacturer or sourcing the gasket material locally.