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Water boiler purging?

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Snowmelt
Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,418
If a house has all water rads, or Just one section of baseboard, but it’s not a single loop return. Do you really need to have a purge in the basement?
Only reason I am asking I went to two jobs in a row with no purging in the basement, just went to the rads and bleed the air till water came out. They didn’t even have an air separator. I elected to install both air separator and a purging station.

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  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,468
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    every system is unique, with enough manual purge point, you can get it flowing

    However a central purger at the boiler removes air that is released as the boiler heats. It will also get entrained micro bubbles that manual cannot

    If you want high efficiency heat exchange, and you should, add micro bubble removal function
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • rick in Alaska
    rick in Alaska Member Posts: 1,458
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    I don't like to have to go all over the house and fight peoples stuff in order to bleed baseboards, first because I don't like the hassle, and second, because I am lazy ( or efficient), so I make sure when I pipe a system, I am able to do all my purging from the boiler room. I have to go to some problem jobs that have no way to purge lines, and I wonder how they ever got it to go.
    Rick
  • Snowmelt
    Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,418
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    Rick, I am with you. I don’t know how they purged it.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,468
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    if you have tall cast iron rads, you really need to do some manual purge to assure they fill all the way.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
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    That’s far more common than you may think on older systems.
    Steve Minnich
    Snowmelt
  • Snowmelt
    Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,418
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    I know what you mean hot rod, but I went into a house and two bedrooms where locked this other bed room I saw the baseboard but the dresser was in front of where possible bleeders where
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,468
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    I don't really see a need for bleeders on fin tube if you have a purge valve for the zone back at the boiler. All you need to do is get it purged for the circulator can move the water. Small bubbles should push back to the purger if you have flow and pipe size correct, 2- 4 fps.

    If the system has a lot of high points where piping went over a doorway for instance, that is where a high point auto vent has a good application.

    I'm thinking tall cast iron rads with bottom only connections need a manual bleeder up top.

    Of course "pumping away" makes a huge difference for air removal and quiet bubble free hydronics.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Solid_Fuel_Manrick in Alaska
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,646
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    I personally hate auto vents all over creation. They should be called auto-green-leakers, because that's what they are in a decade or two. If one must, put a manual coin vent at a high point. But I've had the best luck with just a good power purge at the boiler. It only takes at least one shutoff at each zone and one full-size ball valve and one boiler drain to make purge the whole system.

    I have also piped a couple of cast iron radiator systems, with a coin vent on each rad was needed. A lot of air get trapped in there! I power purge as if it was any other system, and then go and bleed each rad until I get water. Those rads make nice air catchers, but I suspect that with time (like a compression tank) that air would make it's way back to a micro bubble purger, but I wouldn't rely on that alone.
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!